Lowest business case to gain direct service

[northwichcat]

There is a line that could give a direct service between Navigation Road and Chinley stations, that's used by freight only. Using that line for passenger services would allow services like Sheffield-North Wales (not via Manchester or Stockport) or re-routing Liverpool-Norwich to avoid Manchester and Stockport. Such services would be seen as having very low business cases by avoiding Manchester eventhough using the line that way could speed up journeys for some longer distance passengers.

Are there many other lines like this?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Well any line or service into Wakefield Kirkgate is bound to lose business..........

I'll get my coat

 

[Bakerbloke]

Chinley to Buxton via the freight lines although I imagine it would be quite popular
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Avoiding Sheffield on the Dore loop for EMT Norwich-Liverpool.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Chinley to Buxton via the freight lines although I imagine it would be quite popular
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Avoiding Sheffield on the Dore loop for EMT Norwich-Liverpool.

I think Chinley-Buxton would be a great route to re-open for passenger trains, not just have it for freight. They were the days! Some special excursions do that route but I've not managed to get myself on one yet.

Norwich-Liverpool avoiding Sheffield is def more of a possibilty. As you know there's been a lot of talk about reducing travel times between Nottingham and Manchester

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is this the line that uses the Disley tunnel?

 

[VideozVideoz]

No, the Disley tunnel route joins the New Mills Central-Sheffield line just after New Mills. Once past Chinley there is a line going off over a viaduct that takes you towards Buxton and the quarries but it is freight-only at present.

 

[merlodlliw]

lines from Nth Wales & Chester will never avoid Manchester,thats where people. travel to work & shop



Bob

 

[northwichcat]

lines from Nth Wales & Chester will never avoid Manchester,thats where people. travel to work & shop

Unfortunately that's how DfT think. When you're talking about roads they want both roads in to the city centres for the people going in to the city and roads that stay well clear of the city for people not going in to the city. However, when it's train lines many that would mean people could avoid travelling via cities such as Stockport-Stalybridge, Stockport-Marple, Stockport-Glazebrook, Chinley-Navigation Road they're either unused by passenger services or closed.

Manchester probably has more problems with rail congestion than road congestion.

 

[tbtc]

I'm not sure I understand this thread. Is this just another list of "fantasy" lines? Or a list of the lines with the lowest cost/benefit ratios which *have* been built?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No, the Disley tunnel route joins the New Mills Central-Sheffield line just after New Mills. Once past Chinley there is a line going off over a viaduct that takes you towards Buxton and the quarries but it is freight-only at present.

Is the junction where the line diverges known as Chinley North Junction?

I meant to say is it the Dove Holes tunnel (not the Disley tunnel....getting confused with two words beginning with "D":roll that the line exits, then goes through the working quarry in the Peak Dale area (still got a station building) through Tunstead to Buxton....or shall I give up and admit defeat!

The 199 bus from Manchester Airport to Buxton is scheduled that every second bus goes via Peak Dale and the quarry along quite a narrow road, which is hair-raising if another vehicle is coming in the opposite direction.

 

[VideozVideoz]

Is the junction where the line diverges known as Chinley North Junction?

I meant to say is it the Dove Holes tunnel (not the Disley tunnel....getting confused with two words beginning with "D":roll that the line exits, then goes through the working quarry in the Peak Dale area (still got a station building) through Tunstead to Buxton....or shall I give up and admit defeat!

The 199 bus from Manchester Airport to Buxton is scheduled that every second bus goes via Peak Dale and the quarry along quite a narrow road, which is hair-raising if another vehicle is coming in the opposite direction.

That's the one! Now you're on the money! You are also correct about the 199 and Peak Dale. How do you know so much about the area?

 

[merlodlliw]

Manchester probably has more problems with rail congestion than road congestion.[/QUOTE]

Agree with you, suppose the majority using the Manchester Services from Chester (ATW) actually book to Ox Rd or Picc, this evenings trains from Picc & Ox Rd will as usual be overfull, but that's another story.

I don't see much change in the future.


Bob

 

[Cheshire Rover]

lines from Nth Wales & Chester will never avoid Manchester,thats where people. travel to work & shop



Bob

There is a direct option to Liverpool from NW and Chester that would be a low cost option - Halton Curve!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is a direct option to Liverpool from NW and Chester that would be a low cost option - Halton Curve!

Is that the curve where the Summer Saturdays only 0753 from Chester to Runcorn service goes?

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Is that the curve where the Summer Saturdays only 0753 from Chester to Runcorn service goes?

Thats the one. The points set up means the train can only travel in one direction and the double track was pulled a few years ago to leave it single track. Reopening would give a direct route into Liverpool, via South Parkway, for all of NW and even Mid Wales.

 

[Bakerbloke]

Is it possible for south TPE services to get to Manchester Airport without going to Piccadilly?

 

[northwichcat]

Is it possible for south TPE services to get to Manchester Airport without going to Piccadilly?

Not really without building new lines. The only way you could do it (without diverting away from Sheffield) would be a southward run towards Wilmslow, then back up north on the Styal line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is it possible for south TPE services to get to Manchester Airport without going to Piccadilly?

Not at the moment, until the Ordsall Chord is built, then it will be Stockport-Reddish South-Denton, then the following... (Denton Junction-Crowthorn Junction-Ashton Moss South Junction-Ashton Moss North Junction- Miles Platting Junction) carrying on to Manchester Victoria - Deansgate - Manchester Oxford Road-Manchester Piccadilly-Mauldeth Road-Burnage-East Didsbury-Gatley-Heald Green-Manchester Airport.

And vice-versa for the return trip back to Stockport.

Not the quickest route, but no reversals are required.

 

[dfishw]

I personally disagree with having routes that bypass cities unless its a service that is a replication of an existing one that uses that city. I agree with the point about travel time but i think that more important is having a train that stops at large towns/ctiies en route.....otherwise i dont really see the point! The best way to speed up services is to remove small stops by providing them with local stopping services, and where possible, increase line speeds or double track to avoid congestion if this is an issue. Take sheffield for example. I dont agree with having liverpool to norwich bypass sheffield. True the journey would be quicker between manchester and the east...but sheffield would lose its only service to a destination beyond manchester (except manchester airport) and its only service to the east. Where i would agree is if you had a service that just went from to manchester that started from somewhere where sheffield already has regular services too.......eg doncastor, hull, leicester, lincoln or whatever then that would be fine. There are similar examples throughout the country.
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the only exception is if the time penalty were very large, say an hour and the city wasnt singificant ie not london, birmngham or manchester.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That's the one! Now you're on the money! You are also correct about the 199 and Peak Dale. How do you know so much about the area?

Because we have used buses to see the scenery that you miss when you are driving. Talking of Buxton, the 442 to Ashbourne goes the long way round and gives you really good views (but your mobile phone tends to lose its signal) and the 58 over the Cat and Fiddle to Macclesfield offers exitement as well as scenery (bus is fitted with seat belts).

There should be more train and bus packages available in the Peak District

 

[VideozVideoz]

Because we have used buses to see the scenery that you miss when you are driving. Talking of Buxton, the 442 to Ashbourne goes the long way round and gives you really good views (but your mobile phone tends to lose its signal) and the 58 over the Cat and Fiddle to Macclesfield offers exitement as well as scenery (bus is fitted with seat belts).

There should be more train and bus packages available in the Peak District

The 442 is a very popular route especialyl with tourists/walkers. The 42 is a direct service to Ashbourne but not half as good. Best network to be on when travelling the 442 is either O2 or Orange. A lot of the villages are patchy though.

As for train/bus packages, the best you're gonna get is Derbyshire Wayfarer im afraid

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Unfortunately that's how DfT think. When you're talking about roads they want both roads in to the city centres for the people going in to the city and roads that stay well clear of the city for people not going in to the city. However, when it's train lines many that would mean people could avoid travelling via cities such as Stockport-Stalybridge, Stockport-Marple, Stockport-Glazebrook, Chinley-Navigation Road they're either unused by passenger services or closed.

Manchester probably has more problems with rail congestion than road congestion.

The problem with the Stockport to Glazebrook route, which was part of the original Warrington to Stockport Railway, was the condition of the bridge carrying the railway over the Manchester Ship Canal in the Partington area.
The line from Partington to the Deansgate Junction/Skelton Junction was used by freight trains to and from a complex in the Partington industrial belt, but that ceased a while ago. I visited the area near to the old refuse dispersal and sorting site off Sinderland Road recently and the "mothballed" track appeared to be missing. I think that if you follow the line on Google Earth, you will see the current state of the line.