10 Car v 9 Car IET Staffing

[Towers]

Does anybody know if Lumo’s DOO cameras produce the same sort of images as other IET fleets? That is, the two cameras on each car producing ‘opposite’ views which are then presented back-to-back on the in-cab monitors? Or have they refined it to make the imagery clearer?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Feb 2024 ==

I don't think Lumo have use of platform staff anywhere do they? In any case it's much easier for Lumo to keep the camera lenses clean than would be GWR.

My understanding is that the drivers even ‘bell themselves out’ using the TRTS at KGX?!

 

[Carlisle]

My understanding is that the drivers even ‘bell themselves out’ using the TRTS at KGX?!

Going by my observations a similar procedure happens in Edinburgh & no platform staff are involved in dispatch.

 

[Starmill]

My understanding is that the drivers even ‘bell themselves out’ using the TRTS at KGX?!

Yes. I think Lumo and Hull Trains have a host at London Kings Cross and maybe Lumo at Edinburgh, but they don't dispatch the train. Wheras LNER do dispatch Hull Trains.

 

[JN114]

The DOO Maidenhead - Bourne End shuttle which operates during peak hours, when the line is split into a two train service, arrives on the ‘other’ platform at Bourne End which only allows a return back to Maidenhead and provides no access to Marlow. There is only one set of points involved for this, which is the set outside of the station that takes trains into either platform from the single line, and is signaller controlled. No guard is required for that section of the line, and in theory trains should be able to operate there, DOO, regardless of anything being ‘locked in’ to the Marlow section. It’s highly unlikely of course that you’d have one train operating without the other, but it ought to be theoretically possible!

The points at Bourne End are NOT signaller controlled. They can only be operated from the Ground Frame at Bourne End, with a single line token withdrawn.

All trains using Platform 1, must have a guard. Passenger or ECS, regardless if they’re going to/from Marlow or not. DOO operation is only authorised from Platform 2 (company instruction).

If there’s no train on either section of the branch, the typical lie of the points will be from Maidenhead into platform 1; left that way by the last departing train towards Maidenhead.

Ergo, the simplistic rule of thumb that I’ve gone by in my nearly-decade of running the Marlow branch in my day job; and that I’ve subsequently taught to new staff, is that if there is nothing on the branch you need a guard. There are as you rightly say, ways around that using a points operator to set the points towards platform 2 when a train isn’t there; and that is also covered when I teach this properly - but they are rare circumstances that will always be planned and briefed. I thought that keeping it simple for the layman would have been enough for this audience; but apparently not.

 

[Carlisle]

The points at Bourne End are NOT signaller controlled. They can only be operated from the Ground Frame at Bourne End, with a single line token withdrawn.

All trains using Platform 1, must have a guard. Passenger or ECS, regardless if they’re going to/from Marlow or not. DOO operation is only authorised from Platform 2 (company instruction).

Im surprised given the Thames Valley branches were scheduled for electrification several years ago that such old equipment hasn’t already been replaced .

 

[CarrotPie]

I thought that keeping it simple for the layman would have been enough for this audience; but apparently not.

Is it ever?

 

[Towers]

The points at Bourne End are NOT signaller controlled. They can only be operated from the Ground Frame at Bourne End, with a single line token withdrawn.

All trains using Platform 1, must have a guard. Passenger or ECS, regardless if they’re going to/from Marlow or not. DOO operation is only authorised from Platform 2 (company instruction).

If there’s no train on either section of the branch, the typical lie of the points will be from Maidenhead into platform 1; left that way by the last departing train towards Maidenhead.

Ergo, the simplistic rule of thumb that I’ve gone by in my nearly-decade of running the Marlow branch in my day job; and that I’ve subsequently taught to new staff, is that if there is nothing on the branch you need a guard. There are as you rightly say, ways around that using a points operator to set the points towards platform 2 when a train isn’t there; and that is also covered when I teach this properly - but they are rare circumstances that will always be planned and briefed. I thought that keeping it simple for the layman would have been enough for this audience; but apparently not.

Are points approaching Bourne End station - not those within the station leading onto the Marlow branch - operated by the same local groundframe control? Clearly they are changed between the last Marlow service passing over them and the first of the Maidenhead - Bourne End shuttles in order to route the shuttle into the appropriate platform, how is this done?

 

[TurboMan]

Are points approaching Bourne End station - not those within the station leading onto the Marlow branch - operated by the same local groundframe control? Clearly they are changed between the last Marlow service passing over them and the first of the Maidenhead - Bourne End shuttles in order to route the shuttle into the appropriate platform, how is this done?

It's all done from the route setting switch panel within the token hut on platform 1. The Maidenhead - Bourne End token and the Bourne End - Marlow staff are both used to unlock the equipment and allow the points at the end of platform 1 to be set towards Marlow, and the points outside the station to be set for the next service from Maidenhead to enter platform 2. Once the points are locked, the token is replaced so that a new token can be released at Maidenhead for the next train, with the staff held by the driver of the Marlow train. It's all quite clever, but very antiquated and not very reliable.

 

[Towers]

Well, in that case I was misinformed and I bow to your better knowledge chaps! Having never seen any of it I know only what I was told, obviously wrongly! Sounds a fascinating setup down there anyway!

 

[TurboMan]

Well, in that case I was misinformed and I bow to your better knowledge chaps! Having never seen any of it I know only what I was told, obviously wrongly! Sounds a fascinating setup down there anyway!

A bit blurry, but here's a picture of the panel. The Annetts Key machine which is unlocked by the train staff is on the left, and the receptacle for the token is on the right. In order to set the route to Marlow for a train that has arrived from Maidenhead (or to Maidenhead for a train from Marlow), both have to be inserted to activate the panel. Then the route is set using the buttons in the top right-hand corner of the panel, which sets all the points accordingly. The route can't be set from Maidenhead into platform 1 to go to Marlow without the staff, and the route can't be set from platform 1 to go to Maidenhead without the token, so it's quite a clever bit of interlocking, even if the technology is pretty antiquated.

 

[Jimini]

Fascinating -- thanks for sharing!

 

[Horizon22]

Im surprised given the Thames Valley branches were scheduled for electrification several years ago that such old equipment hasn’t already been replaced .

Yes it is weird to have essentially token working so close to London on a relatively busy branch!

 

[Carlisle]

The cameras were designed for DOO dispatch. The problem with them is that because the doors are sliding pocket doors which are not flush with the body, and because the cameras are mounted to the body, the driver cannot actually see the doors via the cameras.

The class 395s have what appears to be a pretty similar door setup & layout, that’s been driver controlled since 2009.