GWR Reimbursement?

[Haywain]

However, some sites such as TrainSplit will offer a 'compound fare' whereby they sell you a fare that's priced using the cost of the London Terminals Advance and then an add-on for the Tube.

Trainsplit will also allow tickets to be bought with contactless or Oyster used to cross London - this could give the exact same tickets (subject to setting relevant additional change time) that the OP held with the benefit of them being on the same itinerary.

 

[island]

But the member of staff was (in my opinion at least) rude and unhelpful.

I wasn't there so I can't say what exactly was said, but it is not rude to decline to give a passenger a free ticket when they have no entitlement to one, as you did.

So what do you propose I do.. my advance ticket to Paddington, booked 3 weeks in advance, was £17. If I look at booking a ticket now for 3 weeks time, for a zone 1 ticket.. its £26. There is no advanced option.

Watershed has explained one option; others may include booking your ticket to the north to start from zone 1, or travelling on a through CrossCountry ticket.

Why would I spend an extra £10 for a £2 tube journey?

Close to £3 these days, but if there is that level of extra cost (which Watershed seems to have shown there is not) it is essentially an insurance that if you suffer a delay causing a missed connection, you will have more rights than when you left a "hole in the middle".

When I spoke to the staff at Gloucester, they said as long I had given myself enough of a connection time (45 minutes they mentioned) to get from Paddington to Kings Cross, something could be sorted if I missed my train and firmly implied that due to GCs infrequency, there was a good chance of being put on another operator's service.

Again I wasn't there so I don't know what exactly was said, but I suspect it was more in the nature of "if you get stuck, speak to staff and they'll see what they can do" rather than a binding promise that you would be allowed to travel onward by a different company's train at no extra cost.

 

[lrailadventure]

I wasn't there so I can't say what exactly was said, but it is not rude to decline to give a passenger a free ticket when they have no entitlement to one, as you did.

Exactly, you weren't there so you don't know how I was spoken to by this member of staff. I'm not calling them rude for not giving me a "free ticket", I'm saying they're rude for how they treated me.

Since you're not actually contributing anything helpful to this thread, and essentially are trying to blame me at this point.. I'll stick to replying to people who are trying to help me.

Grand Central certainly provided poor customer service and given their indifference to the actual ticket(s) held, we can be almost certain that they would have treated you in the same way if you'd held tickets that 'joined up'. They seem to regard providing re-routing at the earliest opportunity in the event of cancellations or missed connections as optional, rather than the legal requirement it is (the infrequency of their services means the delay by waiting for the next GC service will almost always be more than an hour).

Grand Central are quick enough to find ticket acceptance for other journeys everytime their 180s break down or catch on fire, it's a shame they couldn't at least try for me. If they had tried with LNER and they said no, I would probably be more accepting of this situation, because at least then an effort was made. But as far as I'm concerned, the man I spoke to made absolutely no effort in this situation.

However, some sites such as TrainSplit will offer a 'compound fare' whereby they sell you a fare that's priced using the cost of the London Terminals Advance and then an add-on for the Tube. It still prints as one ticket.

Thank you for that information, I shall have to start using TrainSplit rather than going directly through TOCs own sites.

The staff at Gloucester are correct - the minimum connection time (MCT) between Paddington and Kings Cross is 45 minutes between 07:00 and 19:00 Mon-Sat (it's slightly longer outside these times and on Sundays). This is made up of the 15 minute MCT at both Paddington and Kings Cross and 15 minutes for the Tube.

If they were being even more customer focussed they might have endorsed your onward Advance to permit travel on LNER. But perhaps they felt this was something they shouldn't do - if so, train companies such as GWR should encourage staff to feel they have the authority to provide endorsements such as this, even for other operators.

At the time of speaking to the staff, I should have had 28 minutes to change, so I'm guessing they thought even though it was tight, I had a chance of making it. The delays picked up on the journey are ultimately what cost me connection, had we not been 6 minutes late into Paddington (an hour and 6 minutes late technically..), I would have been on an earlier tube service and made it up to the mainline platforms before the GC departed - annoyingly I only missed it by 1 minute .

At the end of the day, all I want is to have the money to be able to pay my friend back, he shouldn't have had to buy me a new ticket (though I am extremely grateful that he did). I don't think I'm being unreasonable for asking for the £40 LNER ticket to be reimbursed, since I gave myself more than enough time between the trains, and it's not my fault that I missed the GC (if it was my fault, I wouldn't have even made this thread because I acknowledge that's it's my problem that I missed the train)..

 

[island]

At the end of the day, all I want is to have the money to be able to pay my friend back, he shouldn't have had to buy me a new ticket (though I am extremely grateful that he did). I don't think I'm being unreasonable for asking for the £40 LNER ticket to be reimbursed, since I gave myself more than enough time between the trains, and it's not my fault that I missed the GC (if it was my fault, I wouldn't have even made this thread because I acknowledge that's it's my problem that I missed the train)..

As said above GWR are not liable to pay out to you more than £17.80. Any more would be a gesture of goodwill.

 

[lrailadventure]

Just as an update:

GWR have responded to my complaint (basically banging on about how their performance is normally good) and are still processing my delay repay claim. A quote from their email (which felt like a very copy & paste response and did nothing to resolve my complaint):

We work hard to run our trains to schedule, but we know we do have problems with delays and cancellations sometimes and it’s disappointing you feel we’ve let you down.

Our aim is to get to the bottom of why delays occur and work out how to prevent them. Our focus is also on the things we can directly control, like:

· our timetable,

· how many trains we have and how reliable they are,

· and our train crew and their availability

While I know the delays that have affected your particular journeys have been really frustrating; overall, we have been meeting our delay and cancellation performance targets in these areas, and in some cases outperforming them.

Good performance also comes from working proactively and collaboratively with our industry partners, and we are we are working with Network Rail (who are responsible for the railway signals, the track, and traffic management) and their Performance Improvement Team to make sure that we continue to drive down delays. We are engaging in an Every Second Counts campaign to focus all our teams on the importance of an on-time railway as we know that is really important to our customers.

Our fleet of Intercity Express Trains deliver improved performance and increased reliability. Coupled with the extensive track improvement and electrification programme undertaken by Network Rail we are confident we can provide a service that is not subject to regular delay, and again, I’m sorry that hasn’t been your recent experience.

Grand Central has also responded to my complaint (within 6 hours of me submitting it) about how the member of staff at Kings Cross handled the situation and have said that they will reimburse the cost of the LNER ticket that had to be purchased.

 

[WesternLancer]

This sounds look a good outcome ref the re-imbursement by Grand Central - I assume this is the outcome you would be looking for so you can pay back your friend for that sum. Hopefully GWR delay-repay will go some way to compensating you for the disruption.

 

[lrailadventure]

It certainly is the outcome I was hoping for.

GWR have also come back to me now with the result of my delay repay claim and have given 100% of the GWR, GC and tube fares. I only applied for a 38 minute delay, but assume they have calculated it off of the next GC service, so it's come back as over a 2 hour delay.

Thank you to everyone on this thread who helped me with this .

 

[Benjwri]

Out of interest is anyone able to point to where it is actually stated that a passenger has less rights using contactless across London? As I understood it the passenger has the same rights under split ticketing rules, as long as they have a valid connection time across London. I can understand how if the tube was delayed but they were using contactless this might not hold, as the delayed portion was purchased when they were aware of the delays. I wasn't aware of any provision for PAYG forms of payment to be treated differently if they aren't the point that is delayed. Certainly PRO refers to final destination, which was clearly York.

 

[Hadders]

Out of interest is anyone able to point to where it is actually stated that a passenger has less rights using contactless across London? As I understood it the passenger has the same rights under split ticketing rules, as long as they have a valid connection time across London. I can understand how if the tube was delayed but they were using contactless this might not hold, as the delayed portion was purchased when they were aware of the delays. I wasn't aware of any provision for PAYG forms of payment to be treated differently if they aren't the point that is delayed. Certainly PRO refers to final destination, which was clearly York.

It's referenced in the internal guidance about Advance tickets.

 

[WesternLancer]

It certainly is the outcome I was hoping for.

GWR have also come back to me now with the result of my delay repay claim and have given 100% of the GWR, GC and tube fares. I only applied for a 38 minute delay, but assume they have calculated it off of the next GC service, so it's come back as over a 2 hour delay.

Thank you to everyone on this thread who helped me with this .

Thanks for update - I hope your perseverance has obtained the result desired.

 

[John R]

It's referenced in the internal guidance about Advance tickets.

I guess of more relevance is where is it made clear to passengers?

Also, the question relates to contactless - if you use Oyster for the journey between the two terminal stations, are you still unprotected, even though you can evidence the journey you took?

 

[Hadders]

I guess of more relevance is where is it made clear to passengers?

Also, the question relates to contactless - if you use Oyster for the journey between the two terminal stations, are you still unprotected, even though you can evidence the journey you took?

IIRC the guidance says that if the card cannot be read on board then evidence of the delay should be obtained from the Travel Centre.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Benjwri]

IIRC the guidance says that if the card cannot be read on board then evidence of the delay should be obtained from the Travel Centre.

Make of that what you will.

I would say that is referring to a ticket held on a smartcard. In this case the delayed portion was on a paper ticket, and the OP obviously made it across London in vastly under the minimum connection time.

 

[yorkie]

Yesterday I was travelling from Gloucester to York (via London) and it would be safe to say that it was not the easiest of journeys (this is going to be a long ramble but I need some advice at the end).. I was booked on the following trains:

• 11:17 - Gloucester to London Paddington (arriving 12:59)
• 14:27 - Kings Cross to York (arriving 16:14)

I held advanced tickets for both of these trains and because of all of the issues between Reading and Paddington recently, I gave myself a longer connection time than I normally would just in case anything went wrong (which oh boy did it..)

The problems started at Gloucester, with the 11:17 omitting the stop (due to a fault with the unit) and travelling directly from Cheltenham to Stonehouse to make up time for the delay in leaving Cheltenham (only 14 minutes, but GWR control seems to be omitting the Gloucester stop for any delay currently due to the train having to reverse there). The platform staff started providing mixed messages about what people could do, some saying to travel to Bristol Parkway and connect with the next Paddington train there, and others saying to wait for the next direct service an hour later. Another passenger pointed out that the train they were suggesting to connect with at Bristol was cancelled, but the staff were not proactive in getting this information to passengers that they had already told to get on the Bristol train. This led to confusion among passengers on the platform as to which train they should be taking. I obviously waited for the next direct train at 12:17, knowing there was no connection in Bristol to be made. I spoke to the staff at the customer information desk and asked what would happen to my connection at Kings Cross as at a maximum I would now only have 30 minutes to get there from Paddington, and they told me that I would need to speak to the staff there and see if they could get me on an LNER service, should I miss my connection due to the infrequency of Grand Central.

The 12:17 arrived and I boarded it with no problems (apart from departing 2 minutes late but we'd be able to make it up right..?). By Stonehouse, we were 6 minutes late, and we kept this delay up for the rest of the journey, eventually arriving into Paddington at 14:05 (22 minutes before my train was booked to leave Kings Cross). There was no information provided as to why we were running late during the journey. When I arrived at Paddington, I ran (not something I do very often.. or enjoy doing) to the Circle Line platform and watched the tube close the doors and leave as I was coming down the stairs. There was a 4-minute wait for the next service, which got me to Kings Cross at 14:25, but since it's quite a trek up to the mainline (and on a Saturday afternoon with hopeless tourists getting in the way at every possible chance), I didn't get to the mainline platforms until 14:28 - a minute after my train had departed!

I went and spoke to staff at the information desk, and they told me they wouldn't be able to put me on an LNER service unless I bought a brand-new ticket, and the best they could offer was for me to travel on the next Grand Central service at 16:48. The reason they wouldn't put me on a LNER train? Because GWR had not given me anything that had an official stamp to state that their cancellations and delays had caused me all these problems. I couldn't afford to pay for a new ticket, but I also really didn't want to wait nearly 2.5 hours at Kings Cross - I had been to my Grandad's funeral the day before and literally just wanted (and desperately needed) a quick and easy journey home. My only option was to take the 16:48, for which the person I was speaking to gave me a stamped ticket saying that I would be allowed to travel on, and incur no extra charges, but I was so frustrated, stressed at tired at this point that I was stood in the middle of the concourse, completely alone, crying. No one offered any help and I was left to try and work this all out on my own.

I messaged GWR's Social Media team (through X) and asked them if i purchased a new ticket for an LNER train, would they reimburse the costs, since I was facing a near 2.5 hour delay otherwise. They came back to me after I provided details of my tickets and said that because I had 2 separate advanced tickets they would not be able to do this, and once again I was on my own with no help. The only help came in the saving grace of a very good friend who purchased a new ticket for me and provided me with the collection code so I could pick it up at a TVM. He had booked me on the 15:00 LNER service, so I arrived in York at 16:52 (38 minutes after I had planned to).

So I now have a few questions:

• Should GWR reimburse the costs of the new ticket (so I can pay my friend back)?
  • If they won't reimburse the whole ticket, could they reimburse the difference between the ticket I already held and the new ticket?
• What should I be claiming delay repay on (Just Gloucester to Paddington or the whole journey despite my split tickets that GWR seem to have issue with)?
• Is this worth making an official complaint about (because I have never had such little help, and been left crying alone in the middle of a concourse before)!?
  • Who would the complaint go to? GWR? Grand Central (it was their representative I spoke to I believe)?
  • If I make the complaint will someone help me write it, because right now any letter I write would contain a lot of 'f's and 'o's.

Just for clarity, the prices of the tickets I held (with my 16-25 railcard discount) were:

• Gloucester to Paddington - £17.80
• Kings Cross to York (GC, old) - £13.85
• Kings Cross to York (LNER, new) - £44.55

For future reference, if this was booked as a through journey with us, and I was made aware of it (I hadn't seen it before today), I'd ensure you were assisted.

Note that this includes the advanced option to cover the tube yourself (people who say that this erodes your Delay Repay rights are not correct to say that, in my opinion).

It certainly is the outcome I was hoping for.

GWR have also come back to me now with the result of my delay repay claim and have given 100% of the GWR, GC and tube fares. I only applied for a 38 minute delay, but assume they have calculated it off of the next GC service, so it's come back as over a 2 hour delay.

Thank you to everyone on this thread who helped me with this

.

This is the correct outcome, and I am glad it has been resolved.

In future, please do consider booking through us (you have the option to have the tube included in the ticketing - which for now means paper tickets only - or you can choose the advanced option to pay for your own cross-London transfer) as the through itinerary could be highly valuable in the event of disruption.

The fact the tickets were split isn't an issue, but without an itinerary showing it as one journey, it can be an uphill battle at times.

A good example of why it can be useful to book with us is that we come up with the best splits, e.g. departing Gloucester 0940, arriving York 1432; for this slower but cheaper journey, we split at Bristol Parkway and Peterborough, for only £48.40 (Wed 6 Mar). By contrast, LNER force you onto CrossCountry for £60.70.

We also check for splits at various other locations too; it is very rare that someone finds we are beaten and when that happens, we aim to inform the relevant people, so that the cheaper fare can be displayed within 24 hours of it being brought to our attention.