Chiltern Railway prosecution

[Chiltern 14]

Hi,
A railway ticket officer said to me yesterday Feb. 13, 2024 that I committed fraud and will be prosecuted, he took my details yesterday which I did comply, I ask if I could just pay the fine but he firmly said no. I bought an advance ticket from London Marylebone to High wycombe the only this is it was on a jobcentre railcard. I do have a railcard but I had a network railcard one. I was a bit stunned by the way he handled things as he was a bit aggressive. I am very worried as I really don’t want to have a criminal record on my name. I stayed at high wycombe for 3 months only within that 3 months I applied job centre railcard on my monthly fare from high wycombe to haddenham just within 2 months. As well as my fare from High wycombe to Marylebone. I am really worried and regretting my decision as I don’t want a criminal record under my name. How can I resolve this matter should I wait for the letter or should I spearhead this and contact them? Any suggestions would help. Thank you

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi,
A railway ticket officer said to me yesterday Feb. 13, 2024 that I committed fraud and will be prosecuted, he took my details yesterday which I did comply, I ask if I could just pay the fine but he firmly said no. I bought an advance ticket from London Marylebone to High wycombe the only this is it was on a jobcentre railcard. I do have a railcard but I had a network railcard one. I was a bit stunned by the way he handled things as he was a bit aggressive. I am very worried as I really don’t want to have a criminal record on my name. I stayed at high wycombe for 3 months only within that 3 months I applied job centre railcard on my monthly fare from high wycombe to haddenham just within 2 months. As well as my fare from High wycombe to Marylebone. I am really worried and regretting my decision as I don’t want a criminal record under my name. How can I resolve this matter should I wait for the letter or should I spearhead this and contact them? Any suggestions would help. Thank you

You should wait for the letter.

Chiltern take a very dim view of this sort of evasion, but they may settle out of court after a few attempts - it is sometimes possible to avoid being prosecuted for these offences. If they do so, you will normally need to pay the single fare for every instance in which you fiddled your train fare plus an administration fee of between £100-250, immediately. You do not need to admit to the further offences - did you mention these when questioned?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum!

There's bad news and good news (well - sort of good news)

The bad news is that because you were using the wrong railcard (and one that gave a bigger discount than you were entitled to) you have broken the law. Chiltern will be able to take you to court.

The (sort of) good news is that you won't be going to prison for this. If Chiltern do take you to court, then eventually you will be fined, and have to pay court costs as well.

But before any of this happens, it's quite likely that Chiltern (or maybe a company called 'Transport Investigations Ltd' ('TIL') who carry out some enquiries for Chiltern) will write to you. That will give you your chance to give your side of the story. The response you get back to this may well be to say that they're still planning to prosecute you - but it's often the case that if you are very apologetic and can show that you won't fare dodge again that Chiltern or TIL will let you settle 'out of court' - that means making a payment to them which will probably be rather less than a court would charge, and doesn't give you a criminal record.

So for the moment, wait for Chiltern or TIL to write to you. When you know what they are asking about, that would be a good time to come back to us, and we can hopefully give you some pointer on how to get the best result.

 

[Chiltern 14]

You should wait for the letter.

Chiltern take a very dim view of this sort of evasion, but they may settle out of court after a few attempts - it is sometimes possible to avoid being prosecuted for these offences. If they do so, you will normally need to pay the single fare for every instance in which you fiddled your train fare plus an administration fee of between £100-250, immediately. You do not need to admit to the further offences - did you mention these when questioned?

Yes, I would pay for the every single fare if that means not having a criminal record on my name.
He didn’t gave me a chance but to say further since he was announcing it on the train and that time I already felt really embarrassed because everyone was looking at me.
I showed him my past journey under the trainline app the only journeys reflected there are my journeys going to portsmouth which are under the correct railcard (which also I buy in advance thus, the lower fare) and the high wycombe to Marylebone with the railcard under the jobcentre plus.
I rarely buy the monthly fare on the trainline app I buy it on the Southwestern railway app as I have a smartcard and I load up the ticket on there. So when I get the letter I should just respond to the said date? I read on some instance here that they will have the travel history of the offender? I researched almost immediately after having that traumatic experience.
Will I have time thought to settle out of court once they give me the letter? Are they responsive on the e-mail link that they will send on the letter? I am really worried I can’t have a criminal record.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2024 ==

But then I will have a criminal record if they do take me to court?, I am really worried about that I want a clean slate. I very much regret my offence and promise to never do it again. As this would cause me my career. What is TIL how do I know if it’s a TIL officer that took my details? It was only one person and he was really aggressive and I was really embarrassed during the trip.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

What is TIL how do I know if it’s a TIL officer that took my details? It was only one person and he was really aggressive and I was really embarrassed during the trip.

Sorry - I don't think I've been quite clear enough: I explained TIL in post #3:

(A) company called 'Transport Investigations Ltd' ('TIL') who carry out some enquiries for Chiltern

And the officer who checked your ticket will be from Chiltern: what happens is that they pass some of the backroom work on to TIL. So it could be either Chiltern or TIL who write to you.

 

[Chiltern 14]

Sorry - I don't think I've been quite clear enough: I explained TIL in post #3:


And the officer who checked your ticket will be from Chiltern: what happens is that they pass some of the backroom work on to TIL. So it could be either Chiltern or TIL who write to you.

Okay noted. So if they take me to court, which I pray they don’t as a first time offender. Will I then have a criminal record?
I can’t have a criminal record as I am starting a career here and having that on my record would be really bad. I’m really worried.

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay noted. So if they take me to court, which I pray they don’t as a first time offender. Will I then have a criminal record?
I can’t have a criminal record as I am starting a career here and having that on my record would be really bad. I’m really worried.

Traveling without a valid ticket (which you say you did) is a criminal offence in England, so yes, if they take you to court and you are found guilty (given what you say you did, you would be found guilty) then yes, you would have a criminal record*.

You need to wait until they contact you and it would be a little way down the process before you knew if they were prosecuting you, so long as you make sure to receive their letter (which will almost certainly be hard copy in the post) and it will be vital that you respond to this letter. The forum can advise you on how best to respond in such a way to try and reduce the prospects of a being taken to court.

You could look on the forum for other threads involving Chiltern Trains which may give you an idea of what will probably happen in the process.

You could also consider paying for help from a solicitor if that might avoid a criminal record (but it can not be guaranteed that a solicitor can achieve that for you) if it gets to a threat of prosecution.

From the railway company's point of view you need to appreciate that, by the sound of it, applying the Job Centre Railcard was not a one off mistake, but something you did repeatedly which they will consider being a decision on your part to avoid paying the correct fare, and if you bought your tickets on line they will access your ticket buying records and see this. They would thus be well within their rights to want to prosecute you. Doing this for some weeks means you are not a 'first time offender', it's just the first time you have been caught doing it!

I realise this will not be the news you want to hear.

*EDIT - I note v helpful post #8 below from @Fawkes Cat about criminal records for this sort of thing which I think gives some good context.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

So if they take me to court, which I pray they don’t as a first time offender. Will I then have a criminal record?
I can’t have a criminal record as I am starting a career here and having that on my record would be really bad. I’m really worried.

Being taken to court doesn't give you a criminal record - being convicted in court gives you a criminal record. And for completeness, you're convicted if
- you plead guilty in court
- you plead guilty in writing (there's a process called the Single Justice Procedure used for this: we can explain more about that if Chiltern / TIL decide to go down that road)
- you plead 'not guilty' but the court finds you guilty.


A criminal record is obviously not a good thing. But it's important not to get it out of proportion.
- most employers aren't too worried about employees being caught fare dodging. It shows bad judgement on your part, but in all honesty everyone make mistakes from time to time. The fact that you've done this more than once (according to what you said in the original post) won't help but you don't look like a hardened offender. Also note that it can be different if you're in a position of trust where you might have control over other people or their money (so things like being a doctor or an accountant or working in finance)
- for most purposes in the UK, you only need to tell people about a conviction for fare dodging for a year or less. Where there's an exception to this, the organisation entitled to the exception will tell you.

There's a chance that you will be able to settle this matter out of court. But even if you can't, a conviction for fare dodging is unlikely to ruin your life plans. If you remain worried about its impact at work then if you are a member of a union then talk to your local rep/shop steward: they may well be able to let you know what the position is where you work.

 

[spag23]

You could also consider paying for help from a solicitor if that might avoid a criminal record

But not yet. Wait till you (and we) see what Chiltern/TIL say in their letter.

 

[Deafdoggie]

There is a growing number of employers getting behind an organisation called "Ban the box" which looks to get the "Have you got a criminal conviction" tick box removed from initial applications. After all, there's no job at all that requires it on initial application. Of course, many jobs require it to be disclosed later in the process, but not before you've had your application vetted on your skills and suitably. And you're then able to contextualise a conviction and explain your side of the story. So a conviction doesn't have to be the end of the world. Many reputable employers don't want your future to be shaped by your past. That all said, of course, there are some (a very small number) jobs that require sound judgement and impeccable honesty. If it is that you're pursuing one of them, then it might be that it's not the job for you. But it doesn't have to all be over, there are many helpful charities and organisations out there that can help you, if you get to that point.

 

[Haywain]

Being taken to court doesn't give you a criminal record - being convicted in court gives you a criminal record. And for completeness, you're convicted if
- you plead guilty in court
- you plead guilty in writing (there's a process called the Single Justice Procedure used for this: we can explain more about that if Chiltern / TIL decide to go down that road)
- you plead 'not guilty' but the court finds you guilty.

For completeness, you also get convicted if you don't enter a plea at all.

 

[Chiltern 14]

Thank you for the advices. I will update you guys on here once I receive the letter. I saw one post here that is a bit similar but he/she was able to settle it on her own without a help of the solicitor. Would it be best to hire a solicitor for when I receive the letter? I really don’t want a criminal record under my name it’s just not an option for me.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Chiltern 14. Welcome to the forum. May one ask just how many other times you have possibly travelled using inappropriately discounted tickets. If several times, the amount that you are asked to pay could soon mount up.

For the one incident where you got stopped, if you are able to negotiate a so-called "out of court" settlement (and this is not guaranteed), you can perhaps expect to be asked to pay the full undiscounted Anytime Day Single fare of £16.40 plus a three figure sum towards the train company's investigation and admin costs.

If, however, there have been other occasions, and whilst you are not expected to self-incriminate yourself, if you've bought and used inappropriately discounted tickets online with the likes of Trainline or similar ticket providers, it's quite likely that the investigators will be able to determine the full extent of your 'moody' ticket purchasing history. And the amount you'll be asked to pay will then potentially add up substantially. Good luck!

 

[Chiltern 14]

Hi, I used the trainline app when I got stopped. And at that time I was just going to high wycombe to get my things since I am moving out. I used this method around 10x on my travel from high wycombe to Marylebone and back and 2 days from high wycombe to haddenham.

The time though that I wasn’t caught. I bought the season ticket with the job centre railcard for 2 months/working days and I used the southwestern railway app not the trainline app, route is going to my contract job at haddenham and back to high wycombe. Will this possibly be included on the prosecution?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, I used the trainline app when I got stopped. And at that time I was just going to high wycombe to get my things since I am moving out. I used this method around 10x on my travel from high wycombe to Marylebone and back and 2 days from high wycombe to haddenham.

The time though that I wasn’t caught. I bought the season ticket with the job centre railcard for 2 months/working days and I used the southwestern railway app not the trainline app, route is going to my contract job at haddenham and back to high wycombe. Will this possibly be included on the prosecution?

It is typical that train companies prosecute for the one offence they have clear evidence of (ie the occasion when they caught you and which they have clear evidence of your guilt)

But since they can check any on line ticketing purchases from wherever you bought tickets (for the purposes of the prevention and detection of crime) you can assume they will look for purchasing records whoever you bought tickets from. They may (and probably will) seek payment of correct fares for all those journeys. But they might not seek to bring lots of different prosecutions for each trip where you had the wrong ticket. But the end result is the same - a criminal record if they prosecute once and you are found guilty.

 

[FenMan]

It's common for fare dodgers to make purchases on more than one app. Railway investigators are well aware of this and the odds are they will find the link between the two purchasing histories.

What you say you've done is at the more serious end of the spectrum and we have seen other cases where, instead of outsourcing the resolution to TIL, Chiltern's fraud team will get directly involved. So don't be surprised if you're contacted by Chiltern instead of TIL.

 

[Chiltern 14]

It's common for fare dodgers to make purchases on more than one app. Railway investigators are well aware of this and the odds are they will find the link between the two purchasing histories.

What you say you've done is at the more serious end of the spectrum and we have seen other cases where, instead of outsourcing the resolution to TIL, Chiltern's fraud team will get directly involved. So don't be surprised if you're contacted by Chiltern instead of

It's common for fare dodgers to make purchases on more than one app. Railway investigators are well aware of this and the odds are they will find the link between the two purchasing histories.

What you say you've done is at the more serious end of the spectrum and we have seen other cases where, instead of outsourcing the resolution to TIL, Chiltern's fraud team will get directly involved. So don't be surprised if you're contacted by Chiltern instead of TIL.

I have read other post here the same case as mine accused of 200 times fare dodging and that person was able to settle out of court with no solicitor. So I am hoping that they will be lenient with this if I have to hire a solicitor then I would do so. I am truly sorry for it and after what I experienced yesterday rest assured that I will never do it again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2024 ==

It's common for fare dodgers to make purchases on more than one app. Railway investigators are well aware of this and the odds are they will find the link between the two purchasing histories.

What you say you've done is at the more serious end of the spectrum and we have seen other cases where, instead of outsourcing the resolution to TIL, Chiltern's fraud team will get directly involved. So don't be surprised if you're contacted by Chiltern instead of TIL.

I’m worried again I am thankful for the help but I am really anxious about the letter. Thank you though

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for the advices. I will update you guys on here once I receive the letter. I saw one post here that is a bit similar but he/she was able to settle it on her own without a help of the solicitor. Would it be best to hire a solicitor for when I receive the letter? I really don’t want a criminal record under my name it’s just not an option for me.

see post #9 ref your question about involving a solicitor.

 

[Chiltern 14]

Hi I’m really worried its been almost six weeks and I haven’t received the notice yet. Is there a way to reach out to them to follow up?

 

[Hadders]

Chiltern do seem to be taking quite a long time to send initial letters at the moment. I believe one of the reasons for this is that it takes time to research online ticket ourchasing history via Trainline to see if there's a history of evasion.

As long as you gave them the correct contact details sit tight, they will get in touch.

 

[Chiltern 14]

Chiltern do seem to be taking quite a long time to send initial letters at the moment. I believe one of the reasons for this is that it takes time to research online ticket ourchasing history via Trainline to see if there's a history of evasion.

As long as you gave them the correct contact details sit tight, they will get in touch.

I have not received the letter yet and its been 3 months going 4 months next month. I’m really worried about this. Who can I contact or get in touch with about this? I know I did gave the correct details, even the e-mail and contact number was there on the photo they took. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have not received the letter yet and its been 3 months going 4 months next month. I’m really worried about this. Who can I contact or get in touch with about this? I know I did gave the correct details, even the e-mail and contact number was there on the photo they took. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Chiltern have been taking up to 5-6 months of late; I assume they have a backlog. It's not in your interests to ensure they hit the 6 month deadline to lay papers to prosecute you.

 

[Chiltern 14]

Chiltern have been taking up to 5-6 months of late; I assume they have a backlog. It's not in your interests to ensure they hit the 6 month deadline to lay papers to prosecute you.

Okay so would you say the best solution is to wait?
I would rather pay the fine than be in constant fear and worry that I might have a record or what if they inputed the wrong address number. I have never been in this kind of situation before so I’m overthinking a bit.

 

[johald15]

Okay so would you say the best solution is to wait?
I would rather pay the fine than be in constant fear and worry that I might have a record or what if they inputed the wrong address number. I have never been in this kind of situation before so I’m overthinking a bit.

What happened

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What happened

@johald15. If you're asking because you've presumably found yourself in a similar predicament to @Chiltern 14, can you, as per forum rules, start your own separate thread in the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' sub-forum. It's fairly usual that no two cases are ever quite the same.

 

[Chiltern 14]

What happened

Its been 5 months and I have not received anything yet. I’m trying to not worry to be honest sometimes the anxiety takes over. I really hope everything is going to be okay.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jul 2024 ==

@johald15. If you're asking because you've presumably found yourself in a similar predicament to @Chiltern 14, can you, as per forum rules, start your own separate thread in the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' sub-forum. It's fairly usual that no two cases are ever quite the same.

Hi,
A railway ticket officer said to me yesterday Feb. 13, 2024 that I committed fraud and will be prosecuted, he took my details yesterday which I did comply, I ask if I could just pay the fine but he firmly said no. I bought an advance ticket from London Marylebone to High wycombe the only this is it was on a jobcentre railcard. I do have a railcard but I had a network railcard one. I was a bit stunned by the way he handled things as he was a bit aggressive. I am very worried as I really don’t want to have a criminal record on my name. I stayed at high wycombe for 3 months only within that 3 months I applied job centre railcard on my monthly fare from high wycombe to haddenham just within 2 months. As well as my fare from High wycombe to Marylebone. I am really worried and regretting my decision as I don’t want a criminal record under my name. How can I resolve this matter should I wait for the letter or should I spearhead this and contact them? Any suggestions would help. Thank you

@johald15. If you're asking because you've presumably found yourself in a similar predicament to @Chiltern 14, can you, as per forum rules, start your own separate thread in the 'Disputes & Prosecutions' sub-forum. It's fairly usual that no two cases are ever quite the same.

Do you think it would be safe for me to do a DBS check for myself just to check if my record is clean? I don’t want to trigger any kind of

 

[30907]

Do you think it would be safe for me to do a DBS check for myself just to check if my record is clean?

Sorry, missed this earlier.

It is exceedingly unlikely that you've missed all the correspondence and that you've been taken to court and fined "in absentia" within 5 months* - in fact Chiltern seem to be struggling with the 6month limit ATM, so nothing will show on a DBS yet.

(* and if by some great mischance you have, there is a way to sort it.)

 

[Chiltern 14]

Sorry, missed this earlier.

It is exceedingly unlikely that you've missed all the correspondence and that you've been taken to court and fined "in absentia" within 5 months* - in fact Chiltern seem to be struggling with the 6month limit ATM, so nothing will show on a DBS yet.

(* and if by some great mischance you have, there is a way to sort it.)

So wait till the 6 month is up? I really have not recieved any letter. My contact details was also there so it’s unlikely that they would make a mistake on the address because they can opt. to contact me but nothing yet.

 

[Chiltern 14]

Hello today marks the 6th month from the day I got caught at the chiltern railway. I really didn’t receive any letter, if I request a DBS check for myself now will the missed correspondence show, if there’s any?
I am praying that there isn’t.
Lesson learned for sure, I will never put myself in this kind of situation again, the anxiety was too much.

Sorry, missed this earlier.

It is exceedingly unlikely that you've missed all the correspondence and that you've been taken to court and fined "in absentia" within 5 months* - in fact Chiltern seem to be struggling with the 6month limit ATM, so nothing will show on a DBS yet.

(* and if by some great mischance you have, there is a way to sort it.)

 

[AlterEgo]

A DBS check won’t show a missed letter. It will only show if there are recordable offences, which most railway fare evasion/ticket irregularity offences are not.