Trivia: Services that are almost unchanged since deregulation

[WibbleWobble]

That's not quite right, in the late 80s, GM Buses (which was the main operator) extended the Evening & Sunday 582 to Newton Le Willows, & MTL Lancashire Travel 582 went St Helens - Bolton

There was also a period when GM Buses / GM North extended daytime some journeys to Lowton, and a separate period when GM North / Greater Manchester (Firstbus) extended some journeys to (as was) Bolton General Hospital.

 

[Deerfold]

First 592 between Halifax and Burnley via Todmorden has ploughed its hourly furrow pretty much unchanged since deregulation, apart from occasional terminus changes to allow for various Halifax bus station developments. The only serious departure from this pattern I can recall was for the first few years after deregulation when the evening and Sunday service only ran as far as Portsmouth (the West Yorkshire boundary three miles north of Todmorden) with Burnley being served by a slightly bizzare Walsden-Burnley short-working of the 589.

There was the bus war with Northern Blue in the early 2000s which saw first running additional 592 services between Todmorden and Portsmouth.

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Not sure which timetable you're looking at ? The only extensions are on school days where there is an extension of a morning and afternoon journey to the Priory School ? And on Timetable World there's a 1986 Luton & District timetable which shows there was an extension to Bessemer School (which is what Priory School was then) in the morning and afternoon.

Perhaps the intermediate timetable just had a less obvious note. Despite having lived in Hitchin, I didn't know where Priory school was, but do remember notes in timetables about it.

 

[m79900]

I think the 110 and 111 from Ashbourne to Matlock via Wirksworth are pretty much unchanged.

 

[Whisky Papa]

There was the bus war with Northern Blue in the early 2000s which saw first running additional 592 services between Todmorden and Portsmouth.

Ah, I'd forgotten that one (after I left First in 2003 presumably?) but I've since recalled that a few additional First Todmorden to Burnley 592 peak journeys were provided much more recently after the 589 was disastrously cut back to operated Rochdale to Todmorden only.

Also now lost was the sole journey that operated on a weekday morning via Towneley rather than the usual route into Burnley via Pike Hill. This was a positioning journey for a contract service from Burnley to the Volex factory in Todmorden, and rarely carried anyone as it ran just behind the service bus anyway. I think it finished around 1999-2000 when the factory closed.

Finally, GM Buses ran one Halifax-Burnely return journey on the 592 for about a year before deregulation (interworked off the 590 from Rochdale to Halifax) but not afterwards, when the interworking cycle changed and they operated on the 591 from Halifax to Heptonstall instead.

 

[Cambus731]

The 36 between Chelmsford and South Woodham Ferrers has barely changed apart from being renumbered 336 a couple of years ago.

 

[Llandudno]

Merseytravel run a bus once a week on Sundays from Seaview Road, Liscard to Frankby Cemetery.
The route is currently numbered 129, but prior to deregulation I think it was numbered 29.

The service allows 35 minutes at the Cemetery, just enough time to lay some flowers and leave a few thoughts I guess?

Can’t imagine it’s very well used and seems a bit of a waste of tax payers money?

Back in the midst of time, 35+ years ago when I worked for the organisation, we undertook a survey one Sunday to see how busy it was, and somewhat creepily the bus carried one more passenger on the outward journey than the return….!

 

[Fundee on Tay]

I belive the 16 between Dundee and Perth is pretty much unchanged from before deregulation? I believe it was briefly amalgamated with the 39 to Arbroath but that didn't last long, before it was reinstated.

Briefly merged but didn’t last long, I think a year at most.

I feel like the Stagecoach East Scotland 30 from Arbroath to Stracathro via Montrose hasn’t changed much.

Arbroath town service 43 isn’t quite the same but is very similar to how it was in the 80s

 

[DunsBus]

The 685 between Newcastle and Carlisle would be a contender, I'd have thought. Though it's changed operators over the years, the route is more or less the same since deregulation other than the withdrawal of the Gilsland section a few years ago and route alterations at each end as a result of traffic management changes.

 

[McDEL]

They became G4/G5 in a Guildford route numbering standardisation exercise in April 1985 (all routes being Gx irrespective of operator) while before that there was the Safeguard 'A' and 'B'. Not sure if they were exactly the same routes but they were to Park Barn.

Correct. It was indeed the 219 in the 80s, and in fact right up to the end of May 1993, a few months after Stagecoach took over.

It did indeed run Aldershot-Midhurst on an hourly service prior to deregulation as the 219. At deregulation it was split, the 219 doing Aldershot-Haslemere and the 229 doing Haslemere-Midhurst. I believe this was on efficiency grounds: the 229 became a mostly-self-contained hourly service (but switched to double deckers around school times, which came off the 219) allowing the 219 to mostly interwork with the 268 (the eighties version of the 18, i.e. Haslemere-Whitehill-Aldershot).

It's also the case that it was the 19 way back in A&D days (1969): there's a timetable on Timetable World. It was already Aldershot-Midhurst by then, and interestingly, the departure times in 1969 were identical, at the Midhurst end, to those prevailing immediately before deregulation in 1986.


The 20 has had a number of route number changes over the years (20 in A&D days, 452 in the 80s pre-deregulation, then 20 again, and more recently the 'Kite' for a while) but yes, the same basic service.

Likewise the 34 was the 284 pre-deregulation but yes, same basic route.

Contrast the G4/G5 where I believe the routes were largely unchanged with what is now the service 3 Bellfields service - I remember it in the late 70s as, I believe, Alder Valley 99/99A/99B (or at least two of those three - and yes @nw1 that's a low route number for Alder Valley, along with the 98? to Grange Park). Stoughton Road didn't link with Woking Road until ? 1979/80, so IIRC, one service went out via Hazel Avenue, and the other via Weyside Road. Weyside Road was then stopped up for the A3 works, and I believe for a time one of the routes went into town via Manor Road. There was a period of operation in the 80s as services 229/230 to RSCH (Royal Surrey County Hospital) and Onslow Village respectively at which stage Safeguard also ran an RSCH service to make up a total of three services per hour; they made up the original G3 if memory serves.

 

[nw1]

Contrast the G4/G5 where I believe the routes were largely unchanged with what is now the service 3 Bellfields service - I remember it in the late 70s as, I believe, Alder Valley 99/99A/99B (or at least two of those three - and yes @nw1 that's a low route number for Alder Valley, along with the 98? to Grange Park). Stoughton Road didn't link with Woking Road until ? 1979/80, so IIRC, one service went out via Hazel Avenue, and the other via Weyside Road. Weyside Road was then stopped up for the A3 works, and I believe for a time one of the routes went into town via Manor Road. There was a period of operation in the 80s as services 229/230 to RSCH and Onslow Village respectively at which stage Safeguard also ran an RSCH service to make up a total of three services per hour; they made up the original G3 if memory serves.

I've heard of those low route numbers via old photos on Flickr dating from 1978/79 or so. I think the reason was that the town services were introduced quite late, and they just used spare numbers (<200 mostly being for the Thames Valley area)? Not sure.

At some point the town services switched to 228-231 and 232/242 for Wood Street; these were the first numbers I actually saw for real, which would have been late 1982 onwards, though I only started taking an interest in the bus network in 1984.

I also remember the 3-per-hour to Bellfields consisting of the 229, 230, and an un-numbered Safeguard which ran on the 229 route. When the G3 was introduced in April 1985 they split the route in the town centre, the G3 being to and from Bellfields only, alternating between Alder Valley and Safeguard. The hospital service became purely Safeguard while the Onslow Village service was formed of an extension of the Blue Saloon 1 (Boxgrove Park via Warren Road) becoming the G1.

 

[greenline712]

In Hertfordshire (and Bedfordshire) Route 321 (Luton - Watford, using the same route number) has been around since about 1933. The southern terminals have changed around (Maple Cross / Rickmansworth / Holywell), and part of the service was numbered 327 in the 1980s . . . but the actual route (apart from a minor rerouting in Luton) is unchanged.

To answer the OP more accurately . . . Route 315 (Dormansland - Lingfield - Redhill) was introduced upon deregulation, still operates, following the same route and using the same timetable (apart from retimings for school times). I travelled on it last week (having been trying since 1986!!) . . . I suspect that, apart from "entitled" students, real passengers are well below 10 each day in total . . . there simply are no houses to serve, other than large, 2/3-car houses!!

 

[Sussexwatch]

Stagecoach East Kent route 17 between Canterbury Bus Station and Folkestone Bus Station via Bridge, Barham, Elham and Lyminge. It had been renumbered 617 during the NBC era but regained the number 17 at deregulation and has followed basically the same route since at least the 1950s although it was re-routed via Old Dover Road in Canterbury around 1969. The 17 has also kept the same daytime frequency, hourly, throughout that time.

By contrast its sister, more direct service 16 has undergone several changes with re-routeings away from Bridge via the A2 and in Hawkinge to serve new developments plus a recent short lived extension to Hythe, while its basic frequency has been increased from hourly to every 20 mins (and was every 15 mins with a 16A for a while).

 

[mlambeuk]

843 Leeds - York - Scarborough has remained relatively unchanged Monday to Saturdays (hourly and the more or less the same route).

 

[Springs Branch]

No-one seems to have mentioned Greater Manchester's stalwart 192 yet.

IIRC the 92/192 service has been plodding up and down the A6 between Hazel Grove and Piccadilly since the end of the trams circa. 1949. Certainly right through from the days of Manchester & Stockport Corporations, then Selnec PTE.

The 192 has had minor tweaks at the city end due to evolving one-way systems and use of different stands in the Piccadilly Gardens area. But I think the southern terminus one side or other of the railway bridge on Macclesfield Rd near the Rising Sun has stayed pretty much the same; and some level of Night Bus service has been retained through PTE & deregulation days.

The only new-fangled innovations (not counting bus wars) seem to have been diversion of a proportion of the 192s to turn at Stepping Hill Hospital, and an attempt in the past decade at a peak-hour X92 limited stop.


Other main inter-urban routes from Manchester which have survived deregulation pretty much the same as far as normal users would perceive them (but maybe not as mint as the 192) are the 8 (Manchester/Bolton) and 35/135 (Bury/Manchester via Cheetham Hill Rd).

These two have migrated short distances into new Interchanges at the 'country' ends and changed their city termini & hence how they traverse central Manchester streets. But as far as regular users would perceive them, they're the same core bus routes as they've been for a lifetime. (OK - the 8 now diverts to make a call in Salford City Shopping Centre, which it didn't always do, but relatively minor, if a bit annoying).

 

[Statto]

Merseytravel run a bus once a week on Sundays from Seaview Road, Liscard to Frankby Cemetery.
The route is currently numbered 129, but prior to deregulation I think it was numbered 29.

The service allows 35 minutes at the Cemetery, just enough time to lay some flowers and leave a few thoughts I guess?

Can’t imagine it’s very well used and seems a bit of a waste of tax payers money?

Back in the midst of time, 35+ years ago when I worked for the organisation, we undertook a survey one Sunday to see how busy it was, and somewhat creepily the bus carried one more passenger on the outward journey than the return….!

The 129 passes my home about halfway through the route, & carries fresh air everytime I see it go past. There are much more frequent buses from
Liscard - Frankby Cemetery throughout the day on Sundays, although they need one change of bus. I'm not sure of the reasons for keeping it going as it's not socially necessary given the lack of passengers using the route.

 

[Deerfold]

No-one seems to have mentioned Greater Manchester's stalwart 192 yet.

IIRC the 92/192 service has been plodding up and down the A6 between Hazel Grove and Piccadilly since the end of the trams circa. 1949. Certainly right through from the days of Manchester & Stockport Corporations, then Selnec PTE.

The 192 has had minor tweaks at the city end due to evolving one-way systems and use of different stands in the Piccadilly Gardens area. But I think the southern terminus one side or other of the railway bridge on Macclesfield Rd near the Rising Sun has stayed pretty much the same; and some level of Night Bus service has been retained through PTE & deregulation days.

The only new-fangled innovations (not counting bus wars) seem to have been diversion of a proportion of the 192s to turn at Stepping Hill Hospital, and an attempt in the past decade at a peak-hour X92 limited stop.


Other main inter-urban routes from Manchester which have survived deregulation pretty much the same as far as normal users would perceive them (but maybe not as mint as the 192) are the 8 (Manchester/Bolton) and 35/135 (Bury/Manchester via Cheetham Hill Rd).

These two have migrated short distances into new Interchanges at the 'country' ends and changed their city termini & hence how they traverse central Manchester streets. But as far as regular users would perceive them, they're the same core bus routes as they've been for a lifetime. (OK - the 8 now diverts to make a call in Salford City Shopping Centre, which it didn't always do, but relatively minor, if a bit annoying).

The frequency of the 192 has varied massively. Im not sure what it was in 1986, but it's now typically 12-18bph. When I used it in the 90s it briefly hit 120bph between several operators.

 

[Geeves]

8 Manchester - Bolton
163 Manchester - Bury via Middleton and Heywood
471 Rochdale - Bury - Heywood - Bolton

Running the same route and frequency since at least GM buses (So far as I know)

 

[Citibus]

8 Manchester - Bolton
163 Manchester - Bury via Middleton and Heywood
471 Rochdale - Bury - Heywood - Bolton

Running the same route and frequency since at least GM buses (So far as I know)

At deregulation the 8 went to peak hours only or similar and the main service became 28. Shearings then started an all day 8 in 1988, every 30mins with GM Buses later changing the 8/28 to both running every 30mins before the 28 succumbed to just the 8 route

(Image shows a 1988 advert for Shearings service 8)

 

[DazCM]

How about the 401 between Selby and Goole? Cut back from the original Leeds-Selby-Goole route at deregulation, it's still running the same route between Selby Bus Station and Goole North Street to this day, by the same operator (West Riding aka Arriva Yorkshire) with the same route number. Remains an hourly service Mon-Sat daytIme.

Only discrepancies I can think of are a short lived extension to York in the very late eighties and EYMS running tendered Sunday services at various points.

 

[Whisky Papa]

The frequency of the 192 has varied massively. Im not sure what it was in 1986, but it's now typically 12-18bph. When I used it in the 90s it briefly hit 120bph between several operators.

I've just checked my remaining Greater Manchester Transport bus guides. In July 1985 the 192 was 8bph most of the day, rising to 10bph for a couple of hours over the evening peak and on Saturday afternoons.

When it was converted from crew operation a few years before, it had been intended to also drop it to 8bph all day but a concerted campaign by the Transport & General Workers Union restored the 10bph peak times at the last minute. Two extra buses and drivers were then required from both Stockport and Manchester's Birchfields Road garages, of course.

 

[m79900]

The frequency of the 192 has varied massively. Im not sure what it was in 1986, but it's now typically 12-18bph. When I used it in the 90s it briefly hit 120bph between several operators.

2 buses a minute?

 

[Efini92]

2 buses a minute?

The 192 was (probably still is) a massive money earner, in the late 90’s early 00’s there were massive bus wars on the A6. Stagecoach bought out most of the rival operators. I remember UK north had their licence revoked after a bus hit and killed a cherry picker operator. The investigation uncovered very dodgy working practices.

 

[Deerfold]

2 buses a minute?

Yes, 2 buses a minute between (I think) 5 operators.

I don't think all buses reached Hazel Grove.



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I've just checked my remaining Greater Manchester Transport bus guides. In July 1985 the 192 was 8bph most of the day, rising to 10bph for a couple of hours over the evening peak and on Saturday afternoons.

When it was converted from crew operation a few years before, it had been intended to also drop it to 8bph all day but a concerted campaign by the Transport & General Workers Union restored the 10bph peak times at the last minute. Two extra buses and drivers were then required from both Stockport and Manchester's Birchfields Road garages, of course.

So, in terms of frequency, the route is very different from at deregulation.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Yes, 2 buses a minute between (I think) 5 operators.

I don't think all buses reached Hazel Grove.



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2024 ==


So, in terms of frequency, the route is very different from at deregulation.

Yes, and as you've mentioned elsewhere, the diversion of some buses to terminate at Stepping Hill Hospital is also a post-deregulation change. The only short workings at that time were to Levenshulme Lloyd Road, where the Birchfields Road buses would drop out of service. It was also the canteen point for their drivers.

 

[JD2168]

The Stagecoach X19 between Barnsley & Doncaster I believe is largely unchanged apart from City/Town Centre layout changes.

 

[Deerfold]

The Stagecoach X19 between Barnsley & Doncaster I believe is largely unchanged apart from City/Town Centre layout changes.

It does finish 3 or 4 hours earlier than it used to.