Query Transporting Wool by train in the Victorian Era

[Titfield]

Does anyone know how wool from australia and new zealand was transported to Yorkshire (for weaving)during the Victorian era?

Was it transported by train or was it transported by coastal steamer or sail powered equivalent?

TIA

 

[Gloster]

When in the Victorian era: it lasted sixty-four years?

From the Antipodes to the UK the ship would have originally been sail but with a changeover to steam: wool was a relatively low-value, non-perishable good, so less likely to get priority on the steamers. From the ports to the UK it would probably have been by canal, which would slowly give way to rail as the network expanded, and by horse-power where necessary for the last leg.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

When in the Victorian era: it lasted sixty-four years?

From the Antipodes to the UK the ship would have originally been sail but with a changeover to steam: wool was a relatively low-value, non-perishable good, so less likely to get priority on the steamers. From the ports to the UK it would probably have been by canal, which would slowly give way to rail as the network expanded, and by horse-power where necessary for the last leg.

Fair comment - but tea was very high value and carried impressively by iconic clipper ships for years - with impressive transit times. May be more to the international wool transit than may be known.

Certainly - domestic wool within the UK was valued traffic by rail - noteably by the Highland Rly and certainly by the Cambrian Railways.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In some cases the wool didn't have so far to travel- in the early days of the industrial revolution fleeces would travel a just a few miles by canal from places like Marsden to mills in Linthwaite and Huddersfield. Once the railway came along, such short and low-volume trips weren't really very efficient for the railways to bother with. Prior to the canals being built, packhorses were used.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In some cases the wool didn't have so far to travel- in the early days of the industrial revolution fleeces would travel a just a few miles by canal from places like Marsden to mills in Linthwaite and Huddersfield. Once the railway came along, such short and low-volume trips weren't really very efficient for the railways to bother with. Prior to the canals being built, packhorses were used.

Very good point - but I suppose in the case of the HR / Cam Rlys - any traffic from the green desert they served would have been more than welcome and from either to Lancs and Yorks would have been reasonable........

Off topic a bit - always intrigued by the Cambrian which branched into "nearly just in time" transit by replacing road driven sheep drovers to that there London with vacuum braked mutton vans for Llanidloes to Smithfield flows. That must have wrecked the economics of some en-route drover patronised pubs.

Even some of the well known Welsh narrow gauge lines apparently served local farmers with wool transits , no doubt transhipped to the main lines .......

 

[Spartacus]

Fair comment - but tea was very high value and carried impressively by iconic clipper ships for years - with impressive transit times. May be more to the international wool transit than may be known.

Wool was surprisingly high value, and potentially perishable largely because of what lived in it. One of the most famous and fastest ships of the era, the Cutty Sark, spent a large proportion of it's career as a wool clipper.

I wonder what Titus Salt, whose mill used mostly alpaca wool imported from South America would make of the number of alpacas kept in West Yorkshire fields today? He'd probably kick himself that he never thought to import & breed the animals here, saving a fortune in shipping!

 

[Gloster]

It did occur to me later that the main flow of general and manufactured goods would be to the Antipodes, export industry having taken a while to develop there (Foster’s only started brewing in 1888). So there probably would be shipping space in the returning vessels.

 

[Titfield]

Thanks to all who responded.

I have realised I phrased my original query very poorly.

I was trying to establish how wool from australia and new zealand which was brought to the uk by ship and then sold at auctions in London was transported from London to Yorkshire.

Was it taken by coastal shipping to say hull and thence by canal to yorkshire OR canal london to yorkshire OR train and if so which route?

I am looking at the period 1830 - 1870 and yes I realise the rail network didnt get that far until the late 1840s onwards.

 

[Spartacus]

I understand the Leeds - Liverpool canal was always a big conveyor of wool bales from Liverpool, I imagine this was a major route, as well as later canals. Being light in relation to it's bulk I suppose it wasn't best suited to rail transport.

 

[John Webb]

Thanks to all who responded.

I have realised I phrased my original query very poorly.

I was trying to establish how wool from australia and new zealand which was brought to the uk by ship and then sold at auctions in London was transported from London to Yorkshire.

Was it taken by coastal shipping to say hull and thence by canal to yorkshire OR canal london to yorkshire OR train and if so which route?

I am looking at the period 1830 - 1870 and yes I realise the rail network didnt get that far until the late 1840s onwards.

Was all such wool taken to London for discharge and then auction? I would have thought much of it would have gone direct to Liverpool initially for dispatch to the mills by the canal system in the North of England prior to the railways arriving? Liverpool was a bigger port than London, I understand, so would the coming of the railways have brought about much change in the ports shipping discharged at?

 

[Gloster]

I did wonder whether wool from down under was brought to the auction houses for auction or was auctioned at some point on the voyage, possibly after the ship reported at The Lizard or wherever it did so in the Irish Sea (South Stack?). This could allow the ship to be diverted to a suitable port. Newspaper adverts might reveal what happened.

 

[Titfield]

Was all such wool taken to London for discharge and then auction? I would have thought much of it would have gone direct to Liverpool initially for dispatch to the mills by the canal system in the North of England prior to the railways arriving? Liverpool was a bigger port than London, I understand, so would the coming of the railways have brought about much change in the ports shipping discharged at?

I did wonder whether wool from down under was brought to the auction houses for auction or was auctioned at some point on the voyage, possibly after the ship reported at The Lizard or wherever it did so in the Irish Sea (South Stack?). This could allow the ship to be diverted to a suitable port. Newspaper adverts might reveal what happened.

I have found references to auctions being held in London hence my initial view of the wool being brought to the Port of London rather than Liverpool.

 

[John Webb]

I have found references to auctions being held in London hence my initial view of the wool being brought to the Port of London rather than Liverpool.

Fair enough, but have you looked at the possibility of auctions at Liverpool? Or were the London auctions based on sample bales being off-loaded in small quantities while the ship carried on? I've just got this feeling that the northern mill owners were a very practical lot and wouldn't want the extra expense of moving large quantities of wool from the south of England to the north by trans-shipment from one form of transport to another if the distance could be shorter or almost eliminated.

 

[Rescars]

Given the spectacular style and significance of the Wool Exchange in Bradford, does anyone know how much of the wool traded there was actually transported through the city?

 

[6Gman]

Given the spectacular style and significance of the Wool Exchange in Bradford, does anyone know how much of the wool traded there was actually transported through the city?

I was going to mention the Wool Exchange, though of course the wool itself may not have been involved. I doubt the similarly fine Coal Exhange in Cardiff ever had much coal inside it (other than for heating) !

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I was going to mention the Wool Exchange, though of course the wool itself may not have been involved. I doubt the similarly fine Coal Exhange in Cardiff ever had much coal inside it (other than for heating) !

The then critical and efficient international mail service would have allowed samples of incoming product to be sent to markets in advance and spot checks on the actual cargo would have been done on arrival by port agents ( I guess) - I do like your comment on not much coal being found in the Coal Exchange.........(apart from for heating)

 

[6Gman]

The then critical and efficient international mail service would have allowed samples of incoming product to be sent to markets in advance and spot checks on the actual cargo would have been done on arrival by port agents ( I guess) - I do like your comment on not much coal being found in the Coal Exchange.........(apart from for heating)

Thank you!

A quick scan of some Victorian newspapers suggests that London was the main auction site, especially for Australian wool, but there were also numerous auctions in Liverpool. One thing that surprised me was the range of countries from which wool was imported - Germany, Spain, Egypt, Russia, Germany and even Gibraltar (though surely that had been sourced elsewhere - I can't imagine Gib would ever have sustained many sheep!).

 

[Millisle]

I did wonder whether wool from down under was brought to the auction houses for auction or was auctioned at some point on the voyage, possibly after the ship reported at The Lizard or wherever it did so in the Irish Sea (South Stack?). This could allow the ship to be diverted to a suitable port. Newspaper adverts might reveal what happened.

Yes, indeed. Ships would have an orders port, if coming from the south typically Queenstown (Cobh) or Falmouth, where they would receive instructions for discharge of cargoes traded during the voyage. In later years sailing ships would often then be tugged to discharge by steam.

 

[Ken H]

Wool goes through a number of processes from a fleece to a finished garment. Carding (to get all the fibres running in the same direction), spinning, dyeing and bleaching, weaving or knitting. I dont think the same factory did all those processes so there must have been transport of half finished materials between factories.

 

[oldman]

This site has a lot of information about the wool trade in London.There were large warehouses at the docks and in the East End. A lot of wool was passing through, up to 1 million bales a year, including re-export to mainland Europe.

Unfortunately there is nothing about how it got from London to the provinces.

 

[david_g]

Wool goes through a number of processes from a fleece to a finished garment. Carding (to get all the fibres running in the same direction), spinning, dyeing and bleaching, weaving or knitting. I dont think the same factory did all those processes so there must have been transport of half finished materials between factories

From my experience growing up in the Colne Valley in the 60s & 70s, although there were firms specialising in dyeing & bleaching, spinning, finishing etc. most mills were capable of going from raw wool to finished product. In the raw wool end there were signs up everywhere warning of the risk of anthrax.
The specialist firms tended to be used if there was a big order that the mill couldn't cope with so some of the work was contracted out.

One holiday job involved acting as driver's mate on one of the lorries that transported pieces(a piece of cloth -6ft wide and -70yds long, as it comes off the loom) to various finishing firms around Leeds/Bradford. This would have been fine but the driver - who shall remain nameless - had a bad back so was unable to lift anything. Guess who did all the lifting.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

'Cutty Sark' started as a tea clipper, but when the steamships took that trade she was put into the wool trade. I remember (from a visit decades ago!) that the display said that screw jacks were used to compress the wool bales, to make room for more. All that suggests a low value cargo, with sailing vessels getting what cargoes they could. (An ever continuing decline, in the end - 1920s & 1930s - grain was all they could get.)
Pat

 

[PeterC]

'Cutty Sark' started as a tea clipper, but when the steamships took that trade she was put into the wool trade. I remember (from a visit decades ago!) that the display said that screw jacks were used to compress the wool bales, to make room for more. All that suggests a low value cargo, with sailing vessels getting what cargoes they could. (An ever continuing decline, in the end - 1920s & 1930s - grain was all they could get.)
Pat

The use of screw jacks was standard when stowing fibres. In the ports of southern USA "screwing cotton" was considered the lowest form of dockside work that a sailor could get between voyages.

Sail lasted on the Australian run as the Suez route didn't give steam the same advantage as it did for India and China. My gg grandfather was a merchant seaman in the 3rd quarter of the 19th century and served on steam across the Atlantic and sail to Australia

 

[Cricketer8for9]

The use of screw jacks was standard when stowing fibres. In the ports of southern USA "screwing cotton" was considered the lowest form of dockside work that a sailor could get between voyages.

Sail lasted on the Australian run as the Suez route didn't give steam the same advantage as it did for India and China. My gg grandfather was a merchant seaman in the 3rd quarter of the 18th century and served on steam across the Atlantic and sail to Australia

I think you might mean 19th century.

 

[Llanigraham]

Thanks to all who responded.

I have realised I phrased my original query very poorly.

I was trying to establish how wool from australia and new zealand which was brought to the uk by ship and then sold at auctions in London was transported from London to Yorkshire.

Was it taken by coastal shipping to say hull and thence by canal to yorkshire OR canal london to yorkshire OR train and if so which route?

I am looking at the period 1830 - 1870 and yes I realise the rail network didnt get that far until the late 1840s onwards.

It didn't have to even have been in the country to be auctioned. Cargo on ships was often auctioned whilst in transport.

 

[PeterC]

I think you might mean 19th century.

Fat thumb strikes again