LNER to pilot removal of Off-Peak tickets

[Bletchleyite]

What is the workaround for Glasgow to Newcastle and other ECML stations? I typed in Manors on the TVM and there was still just one way fares.

Just buy two Super Off Peak Singles. The thing you need to work around is the removal of this ticket for London-Newcastle and London-Edinburgh. There aren't now any returns for any LNER set fares other than possibly Peterborough/Stevenage to London (I forget).

 

[sheff1]

There aren't now any returns for any LNER set fares other than possibly Peterborough/Stevenage to London (I forget).

There are still plenty, but not relevant to this thread and best not to give LNER ideas anyway.

 

[Sniffingmoose]

There is some coverage on BBC Radio 4 You and Yours program which was broadcast at 12noon today 5th Febuary. Its the 1st item on the program.

You and Yours - Train Fares; Banking Vans; Crochet and Knitting - BBC Sounds

There are more options for getting train tickets but choosing can be difficult.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[robbeech]

Wasn't it 'simple' enough to buy a super off-peak ticket that you could use on any train?

The only complication being needing to make a seat reservation and hoping you can get one, but at the same time being free to just try another train and take that.

No, clearly not. 3 ticket types was far too complicated. It desperately needed replacing with 3 ticket types.

 

[D6700]

There is some coverage on BBC Radio 4 You and Yours program which was broadcast at 12noon today 5th Febuary. Its the 1st item on the program.

You and Yours - Train Fares; Banking Vans; Crochet and Knitting - BBC Sounds

There are more options for getting train tickets but choosing can be difficult.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good to hear Mark Smith (The Man in Seat Sixty-One) calling out LNER's con for what it is - albeit not quite in such direct terms.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, clearly not. 3 ticket types was far too complicated. It desperately needed replacing with 3 ticket types.

I think they slightly mistyped "with the existing 3 ticket types it was too complicated to extort higher fares out of people".

 

[weeklycommuter]

Written questions and answers - Written questions, answers and statements - UK Parliament

Information from UK Parliament on written questions & answers, written statements and daily reports.

questions-statements.parliament.uk

Question Grahame Morris Labour Easington Commons
To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, whether his Department was involved in the decision of LNER to introduce its Simpler Fares pilot scheme, as announced on 16 January 2024.
Answer Huw Merriman Conservative Bexhill and Battle Commons
Answered on 29 January 2024
The Department has supported London North Eastern Railway (LNER) to introduce its two-year long trial and we will carefully consider the results.

 

[modernrail]

Oh Huw you really did think by putting the word Simpler on the front of this you would fool us all didn’t you.

These people are insufferable.

- Well we could just call it something that is both true and not true Minister
- but won’t people notice
- well they might Minister but then again they might not might they
- and if they do?
- well we will just tell them that this system is better because it is simpler
- but won’t they notice simpler means double the fare, after all that fuss about privatisation and regulated fares
- well they might Minister - I suppose we could cap the new simpler fares
- oh no, don’t do that, no, let’s see if we get away with it, and if not - well we are screwing so many other things up that this will be well down the priority list won’t it
- very well Minister, I will tell the train people to go ahead

 

[87electric]

That, and Horne has said in Modern Railways interviews before that part of the project was intended to increase overall income. It's definitely not revenue neutral!

I wish I kept them now to be able to quote it. Has anyone else got it, I wonder? I seem to recall it was in an LNER feature special maybe 6 months or so back.

The LNER feature was in the July issue. David Horne, in his interview with Philip Sherratt was noting comments from former Eurostar boss Richard Brown that a move to selling only singles made a huge difference to that company's commercial performance. Was that what you remember reading?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The LNER feature was in the July issue. David Horne, in his interview with Philip Sherratt was noting comments from former Eurostar boss Richard Brown that a move to selling only singles made a huge difference to that company's commercial performance. Was that what you remember reading?

I definitely recall something referring more specifically to the dynamic pricing (as it was referred to) and saying they'd be able to increase revenue by being able to price busy trains up and to (part) balance quieter ones down. So it may have been a different month.

However it's probably going to be rather hard to find and I might be getting confused, so I think I'll leave it there and not pursue this line further - thanks for having a look.

 

[BRX]

The LNER feature was in the July issue. David Horne, in his interview with Philip Sherratt was noting comments from former Eurostar boss Richard Brown that a move to selling only singles made a huge difference to that company's commercial performance. Was that what you remember reading?

Going a little off topic...but Eurostar haven't really moved to "only singles". In fact if you buy an out and return journey, the "singles" you are sold are cheaper than they are if you only buy in one direction. In other words you are penalised if you don't buy a return journey (rather frustrating when you want to, for example, go out to Brussels and return from Paris).

 

[DanNCL]

What is the workaround for Glasgow to Newcastle and other ECML stations? I typed in Manors on the TVM and there was still just one way fares.

If you don’t mind travelling via Carlisle, splitting there gets around the restrictions and is reasonably priced.

 

[nitten_travell]

I travel not infrequently from Edinburgh to London for work. Aside from now travelling from "Haymarket" instead is there also a way to ensure as little money as possible flows LNER's way? I used to buy all my tickets on their site as I liked the seat selection facility. If I instead bought on, say, the forum site, would LNER receive a smaller % of my fare?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I travel not infrequently from Edinburgh to London for work. Aside from now travelling from "Haymarket" instead is there also a way to ensure as little money as possible flows LNER's way? I used to buy all my tickets on their site as I liked the seat selection facility. If I instead bought on, say, the forum site, would LNER receive a smaller % of my fare?

They wouldn't get the commission but that's not huge.

You could cause them to get precisely £0 by travelling with Lumo on a dedicated ticket, though that of course may not suit your journey times.

 

[takno]

I travel not infrequently from Edinburgh to London for work. Aside from now travelling from "Haymarket" instead is there also a way to ensure as little money as possible flows LNER's way? I used to buy all my tickets on their site as I liked the seat selection facility. If I instead bought on, say, the forum site, would LNER receive a smaller % of my fare?

They would receive less, but it's less than 7%. By the time they've paid the onward cost of processing your card, and you've loaded up on the endless cashback schemes they seem to offer, and you've used their loyalty programme they probably aren't ahead anymore. It's frustrating because as you say their booking engine is really quite nice provided you aren't trying to commit a terrible sin like buying a ticket for a sold out train, so there are noticeable downsides to moving.

FWIW if you are buying advances there are a few cases were splitting the ticket en-route has been cheaper in some cases, and I'd guess those anomolies are likely to get more common with the current craziness, so it's worth checking a split ticket site anyway.

 

[nitten_travell]

You could cause them to get precisely £0 by travelling with Lumo on a dedicated ticket, though that of course may not suit your journey times.

Or Avanti + Seatfrog and settle in for a whole day on the rails!

 

[ModernRailways]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but searching for tickets from Manors to London, Heworth to London, and Metrocentre to London now show no fares as being available. This had been my workaround for getting the old Super Off-Peak tickets but these now no longer seem available either.
Is there another way of doing this, ideally keeping options open for travel on Lumo, and LNER, and potentially even a TPE/Grand Central changing at York?

 

[wilbers]

I picked a random day in about a week and the super-off peak tickets are there.

 

[ModernRailways]

I picked a random day in about a week and the super-off peak tickets are there.

I've just tried a few different dates and most work but there's a few dates where it just throws out no tickets could be found - using LNERs own site.
It's good to see they're still available, if need be on the day I'll just pop into a ticket office or use a TVM. It's a shame we even have to 'hack' around the fare to get it cheaper, even in your own example the Super Off-Peak Single is cheaper than Advances would be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've just tried a few different dates and most work but there's a few dates where it just throws out no tickets could be found - using LNERs own site.
It's good to see they're still available, if need be on the day I'll just pop into a ticket office or use a TVM. It's a shame we even have to 'hack' around the fare to get it cheaper, even in your own example the Super Off-Peak Single is cheaper than Advances would be.

If you get "no tickets found" it is because either the train is sold out or hasn't been released yet.

 

[wilbers]

If you get "no tickets found" it is because either the train is sold out or hasn't been released yet.

..but for super-off peak tickets they can't sell out.

 

[Watershed]

..but for super-off peak tickets they can't sell out.

The reservations that LNER falsely claim are "required" in their timetable data can, however, sell out. This means it might prove necessary to force a convoluted itinerary avoiding LNER in order to buy a ticket.

 

[Kite159]

And it wouldn't surprise me if LNER are doing something a bit dodgy in the background to prevent seat reservations being offered for those super off-peak tickets. Assuming such a thing is possible.
(Similar to a thread from a few months ago when they wouldn't offer seat reservations for holders of some Thameslink/Great Northern super off-peak tickets between London & Stevenage)

 

[Fermiboson]

And it wouldn't surprise me if LNER are doing something a bit dodgy in the background to prevent seat reservations being offered for those super off-peak tickets. Assuming such a thing is possible.
(Similar to a thread from a few months ago when they wouldn't offer seat reservations for holders of some Thameslink/Great Northern super off-peak tickets between London & Stevenage)

Do you have the link to the thread in question?

 

[BRX]

The reservations that LNER falsely claim are "required" in their timetable data can, however, sell out. This means it might prove necessary to force a convoluted itinerary avoiding LNER in order to buy a ticket.

Worth noting that they don't just do this in the behind-the-scenes data but state it explicitly on their website too - when you click "view all fares" for a particular itinerary on their journey planner results, it says "seat reservations are mandatory". It's blatantly false information.

 

[Wallsendmag]

And it wouldn't surprise me if LNER are doing something a bit dodgy in the background to prevent seat reservations being offered for those super off-peak tickets. Assuming such a thing is possible.
(Similar to a thread from a few months ago when they wouldn't offer seat reservations for holders of some Thameslink/Great Northern super off-peak tickets between London & Stevenage)

LNER trains are relatively busy so there's no need to do something a bit dodgy in the background.

 

[Joe Paxton]

The reservations that LNER falsely claim are "required" in their timetable data can, however, sell out. This means it might prove necessary to force a convoluted itinerary avoiding LNER in order to buy a ticket.

Does Trainsplit (and by extention the forum's booking engine), in flexible ticket mode, show these 'sold out' / 'fully reserved' journeys?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does Trainsplit (and by extention the forum's booking engine), in flexible ticket mode, show these 'sold out' / 'fully reserved' journeys?

No compliant accredited site will sell a ticket for a train marked compulsory reservations where none are available.

 

[Fermiboson]

Another point is how staff deal with passengers without reserved seats. I once got on a fully reserved Azuma without seat reservation on a flexible, so I stood in the galley and the train guard started to ask me increasingly difficult questions insinuating that my ticket was invalid without a seat reservation, before I got off at my stop so he presumably let the matter drop. I have no idea if this is at all a common occurrence.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another point is how staff deal with passengers without reserved seats. I once got on a fully reserved Azuma without seat reservation on a flexible, so I stood in the galley and the train guard started to ask me increasingly difficult questions insinuating that my ticket was invalid without a seat reservation, before I got off at my stop so he presumably let the matter drop. I have no idea if this is at all a common occurrence.

You shouldn't be in the galley, it's a staff only area. Do you mean the vestibule or buffet?