Notice of Intent to Prosecute

[mzhibql]

Hi all,

I received a letter in the mail today from GTR notifying me of intent to prosecute for the following:

“On 21 Nov 2023, Did enter a train for the purpose of travelling on the railway, and upon inspection at Farringdon <lu> (ZFD); did not produce a valid ticket entitling travel.”

I was travelling from Luton to Farringdon, however bought a ticket for Luton to Luton Airport Parkway and from St Pancras to Farringdon with a 16-25 railcard on Trainline so I could pay less (I do actually own the 16-25 railcard I bought the ticket with).

On arrival to Farringdon the Inspector scanned my ticket and said I had not scanned it at St Pancras. I did lie at first and claim I showed the ticket, but she obviously knew that wasn’t true so I gave it up. She then took my details and a picture of my railcard and train tickets. She never made me pay a fine at the station (not sure if this is unusual) nor did she make me buy a new ticket. After taking my details she let me through the barriers.

I completely forgot about the fine because I was under the impression I was going to receive a letter disclosing the fine and fine amount, and so I haven’t paid. I am not entirely sure if I deluded myself into thinking I would receive a letter about the fine or if the Inspector actually told me I would receive this letter.

On the end of the letter there is a section for me to reply with my version of events. Is there a way to reply to this so I can avoid having to go to court? And will my railcard also be voided?

Struggling uni student here, lol. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

This is similar to another thread here on the same subject

You were caught "doughnutting"; i.e. buying tickets to the next station and then from a nearer station to your destination with a big "hole" in the middle where you haven't paid. You were obviously not obliged/entitled to pay a fine at the time (strictly speaking - a penalty fare)

How many times have you done this?

Others, e.g @Hadders will be along to give you correct advice on how to move forward

You will have to wait for a letter to arrive from the train company to see what they say

 

[island]

GTR will almost always resolve these issues out of court. Expect to pay £100-150 plus the avoided fares.

If you’ve been buying this online for some time, you can also expect that they will get your purchase history from Trainline and look for the fares avoided in the past too.

 

[mzhibql]

This is similar to another thread here on the same subject

You were caught "doughnutting"; i.e. buying tickets to the next station and then from a nearer station to your destination with a big "hole" in the middle where you haven't paid. You were obviously not obliged/entitled to pay a fine at the time (strictly speaking - a penalty fare)

How many times have you done this?

Others, e.g @Hadders will be along to give you correct advice on how to move forward

You will have to wait for a letter to arrive from the train company to see what they say

I checked the Trainline app, I’ve done it 4 times including this one.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I’m assuming the three other occasions were before the one on which you were caught?

 

[30907]

Quick points:
Your railcard will not be voided - you have paid for it!
Yes, it is normal for train companies not to issue on-the-spot penalties when they suspect deliberate cheating.

 

[mzhibql]

I’m assuming the three other occasions were before the one on which you were caught?

Yes. After I was caught I paid for tickets as normal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2024 ==

Quick points:
Your railcard will not be voided - you have paid for it!
Yes, it is normal for train companies not to issue on-the-spot penalties when they suspect deliberate cheating.

Okay, thanks so much for letting me know!

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

To add to what's already been said. You've been caught 'douhgnutting' and for this you won't be issued with a Penalty Fare but instead have your details taken for further investigation. The train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court but if you co-operate GTR are usually prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

I suggest mentioning the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The exact wording of the letter you've been said is important. If it mentions previous occurances then it's probably wise to tell them about the other occasions where you have avoided paying the correct fare. If it doesn't mention other incidents then simply confine your reply to the incident on the day when you were caught.

Feel free to post your draft reply in thsi thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[mzhibql]

Welcome to the forum!

To add to what's already been said. You've been caught 'douhgnutting' and for this you won't be issued with a Penalty Fare but instead have your details taken for further investigation. The train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court but if you co-operate GTR are usually prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

I suggest mentioning the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The exact wording of the letter you've been said is important. If it mentions previous occurances then it's probably wise to tell them about the other occasions where you have avoided paying the correct fare. If it doesn't mention other incidents then simply confine your reply to the incident on the day when you were caught.

Feel free to post your draft reply in thsi thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

Thanks for the response!

In my response letter, should I mention the other 3 times I did this? When I was with the inspector she did look at my Trainline purchase history and saw that I've done it before. I'm assuming since they also do their own investigations that GTR know I have done this other times.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Feb 2024 ==

Hi everyone, I've drafted a letter and was hoping I could get your thoughts on it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for contacting me regarding the fare evasion incident on the 21st November 2023.

I admit that I did indeed travel from Luton to Farringdon without a valid or complete ticket and was spoken to by a Revenue Inspection Officer whilst exiting Farringdon station.

First and foremost, I would like to apologise. I want to convey my regret and take full responsibility for my lapse in judgment. I recognize that my actions not only took advantage of the railway service but also caused disruption and financial losses for the rail company, as well as inconvenience for fellow paying passengers.

Since this incident, I have reflected on what I have done and understand the seriousness of partaking in what is known as ‘doughnutting.’ I also acknowledge how my actions were not only inappropriate but disrespectful to the staff who also allow for the railway to be in service, and unfairly takes up the railway companies time and resources.

To rectify the situation, I have proactively educated myself on proper travel etiquette and am committed to ensuring I possess a valid ticket before every journey. I have also cooperated with your investigation by reviewing my travel history, and can see that I have travelled without a complete ticket on three other occasions. If there are any discrepancies in this information during your investigation, I am more than willing to comply and correct them.

Understanding the gravity of the situation, it would be extremely appreciated if we could settle privately and avoid legal proceedings. As stated, I understand you will be conducting your own investigation and I am committed to paying for any administrative costs the company has incurred. Additionally, I am prepared to pay the penalty for the named occasion as well as the penalty for the other 3 occasions I stated previously. If there are any other outstanding costs or penalties, I am also happy to address those promptly.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond. I am committed to making amends for my actions and I gratefully await your response.


Many thanks,
/////

 

[30907]

If this is your normal writing style, fine - but to me it seems rather overdone.

A small point, though: saying that you are "prepared to pay the penalty" implies that you are in a position to make an offer - you are not, you need to ask them to consider offering you a settlement.

 

[John R]

I’m afraid it’s obvious that you have used AI to help you write it.

Take as an example, "To rectify the situation, I have proactively educated myself on proper travel etiquette and am committed to ensuring I possess a valid ticket before every journey". I mean, come on, "proactively educated myself on proper travel etiquette" - exactly what education do you need, and when has paying the correct fare become proper travel etiquette?

Try and rewrite it in your own words - it will come across much more genuinely.

 

[mzhibql]

I changed it, how does this sound?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for contacting me regarding the fare evasion incident on the 21st November 2023.

I admit that I did indeed travel from Luton to Farringdon without a valid or complete ticket and was spoken to by a Revenue Inspection Officer whilst exiting Farringdon station.

First and foremost, I would like to apologise. I recognise how I took advantage of the railway service and take full responsibility for my actions. Since this incident, I have reflected on what I have done and understand the seriousness of partaking in what is known as ‘doughnutting.’ I acknowledge how my inconsiderate behaviour causes significant losses to rail companies, as well as disrupting the rail service for other paying customers. My actions were not only inappropriate but disrespectful to the staff who also allow for the railway to be in service, and unfairly takes up the railway companies time and resources.

I have taken the steps to educate myself on this matter. Whenever I travel, I now make sure that I have purchased a valid ticket before travelling and can assure you that I will continue to do so every time I travel.

With this being said, I have taken it upon myself to look at my purchase history in order to aid the investigation process, and can see that I have travelled without a complete ticket 3 other times. If you find this number to be incorrect during your investigation process I am happy to rectify it.

It would be extremely appreciated if your company would be willing to settle this matter out of court. As stated, I understand you will be conducting your own investigation and I am more than willing to cover any administrative costs the company has incurred. I am also more than willing to pay the penalty for the named occasion as well as the penalty for the other 3 occasions I stated previously. If there are any other outstanding costs I am also happy to pay these.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond. I am committed to making amends for my actions and I gratefully await your response.


Many thanks,

 

[Hadders]

This is better. A couple of points:

Say something like 'I wondered if it would be possible to settle the matter without court action. I would be prepared to pay the outstanding fare plus your administrative costs in dealing with this matter'

There's no need to mention other occasions, unless the letter from GTR specifically refers to other instances. You aren't required to incriinate yourself.

Other forum members might have further builds.

 

[BRX]

Does writing these wordy letters of apology actually make the slightest difference? Does the person at the other end care at all whether there are promises to be a better person in future? I assume their job is simply to process things as efficiently as possible.

What would happen if the reply simply said something like:

"I acknowledge receipt of your letter and am keen to co-operate in reaching an out of court settlement. Please let me know how best to proceed"

And no more?

 

[John R]

It’s still rather verbose in my opinion, and I agree with @Hadders re incrimination, unless you are keen now to ensure that the fraud team don’t come back for a second bite of the cherry at a subsequent date (which we have seen a couple of times recently, and results in a second administration fee as well as ultimately paying for those fares too).

 

[Hadders]

Does writing these wordy letters of apology actually make the slightest difference? Does the person at the other end care at all whether there are promises to be a better person in future? I assume their job is simply to process things as efficiently as possible.

What would happen if the reply simply said something like:

"I acknowledge receipt of your letter and am keen to co-operate in reaching an out of court settlement. Please let me know how best to proceed"

And no more?

It's a good question but probably a discussion for a separate thread.

 

[Haywain]

Does writing these wordy letters of apology actually make the slightest difference? Does the person at the other end care at all whether there are promises to be a better person in future? I assume their job is simply to process things as efficiently as possible.

What would happen if the reply simply said something like:

"I acknowledge receipt of your letter and am keen to co-operate in reaching an out of court settlement. Please let me know how best to proceed"

And no more?

Yes, it matters. Having been on the receiving end of such letters in the past (albeit in different circumstances) there is a sweet spot where one is more inclined to take a charitable view. Too long, and any message is lost while too short is going to give an indication of not being bothered.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Does writing these wordy letters of apology actually make the slightest difference? Does the person at the other end care at all whether there are promises to be a better person in future? I assume their job is simply to process things as efficiently as possible.

What would happen if the reply simply said something like:

"I acknowledge receipt of your letter and am keen to co-operate in reaching an out of court settlement. Please let me know how best to proceed"

And no more?

It's a good question but probably a discussion for a separate thread.

Your wish is my command... https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wordy-apologies.262455/

 

[mzhibql]

This is better. A couple of points:

Say something like 'I wondered if it would be possible to settle the matter without court action. I would be prepared to pay the outstanding fare plus your administrative costs in dealing with this matter'

There's no need to mention other occasions, unless the letter from GTR specifically refers to other instances. You aren't required to incriinate yourself.

Other forum members might have further builds.

The only reason I’ve mentioned the other occasions is because the Inspector saw my Trainline purchase history and I’m sure she took a photo of it too, so they must know I’ve done it before. Plus, I’ve seen other threads where people say it’s just better to admit to all the times you’ve done it.

Should I still include it in the letter or not? The letter they’ve sent only mentions that specific occurrence.

 

[John R]

We're seeing more cases where the initial offence is followed up by a review of the passenger's online purchase history, which has then resulted in them coming back to claim for those. (As opposed to handling them all at once, although that still does happen.)

The only two downsides I can see to not disclosing other offences are:-

- that if the railway comes back a second time there will be a second admin fee added to the cost of any tickets.
- it may indicate a lack of honesty that means the investigators may take legal action if they discover it as opposed to an OOC settlement.

 

[mzhibql]

We're seeing more cases where the initial offence is followed up by a review of the passenger's online purchase history, which has then resulted in them coming back to claim for those. (As opposed to handling them all at once, although that still does happen.)

The only two downsides I can see to not disclosing other offences are:-

- that if the railway comes back a second time there will be a second admin fee added to the cost of any tickets.
- it may indicate a lack of honesty that means the investigators may take legal action if they discover it as opposed to an OOC settlement.

Okay, I see how it works now.

I think I’d rather just leave it in the letter so I won’t have to worry about them coming back. I’d rather pay a bigger settlement and move on to be honest.