I stand corrected! I've not seen one of those as yet - are they fitted to all Std Class seats in a carriage concerned, or just the worst seats, as a matter of interest?
My experience was that the entire carriage had been done, but it was the only carriage in the set that had been done.
Thanks - that's good to know
Yes, I agree ref the 158s and the EMT refurb some years back was well done in that regard - tho again now getting tired and dirty due to time that has elapsed and presumably an inadequate cleaning regime / need for deep cleaning - again carpets and upholstery in particular.
I thought some 222s had had new seats, possibly a seven car. That said for the prices they charge, ripped seats are shocking. So many complaints.. It might be a passengers first impression
More five car sets, otherwise you're wasting very limited platform space at St. Pancras. That's why the order is for the specially shorter 810's, so 2x5 coaches fit on each platform.
The 360's effectively replaced the 4 four car 222, which were primarily brought in for, and used on, the Corby services - they had 132 standard/33 first seats: 165 per train, 660 seats total in fleet.
They are gradually being done I think during normal maintenance time. One the other week looked like it was half red and half grey seating in the same coach.
How many of threse 360s have made it up to the East Midlands?
There were talks of the 180s being kept, with a single 810 being equivalent to a 7 car 222 rhre should be plenty of seats without them.
21. 6 diagrams so enough for 3x4 car with 3 in maintanence.
Sorry, I don't think I was clear enough. It wasn't about how 810s might be deployed, but how 222s are (in my experience) deployed.
I meant geographically, I've not seen one in Nottingham, Derby or Sheffield?
No, it is quoted within overall government liabilities due to the ultimate guarantor.
Five car sets certainly do help with the best use of limited platform space at St Pancras. Midweek, off peak in the middle of the day, 5 car trains with the 810’s increased capacity should be more than adequate on most trains especially the Nottinghams.
Unless some locos come along and haul 360s akin to a 57-390 arrangement to Holyhead, they won’t be visiting north of Kettering (MML side I mean, not Corby side) for a while yet.
This is the same argument we all saw discussed on the GWR IET thread way back.
My guess is the point being made was that the 360s are not part of the equation for seat capacity to Nottingham and Sheffield via Derby. In which case remove the previous number of 222s from the equation (the four 4car 222s ?).
The 360s have taken the stops off the longer distance trains haven’t they? That gives people going north a better chance of a seat at St Pancras.
The point I'm trying to make is that it's pretty poor for EMR to try and justify less capacity to the main cities of the east midlands, for which it is named, by saying that they've strengthened services that mainly serve London and the home counties.
Stops that people in the East Midlands might want a direct connection to, like Luton Airport?
Yes, and now reports are talking about the end of '25 before full operaiton. These trains were originally ordered for Dec '22. The situation has changed, therefore the stop-gap rolling stock allocation needs to also change to reflect that.
The "Slow" services to london from Nottingham and Sheffield always seemed fairly well patronised? I'm not suggesting that all trains stop at every stop, but the previous slow/fast pattern seemed to work very well.
Unfortunately, you can't ignore the capacity issues at St. Pancras. There's zero chance of them being resolved at any time in the foreseeable future, so they are the tail that wags the dog. It's a ridiculous situation but due to the cramped space allocated to EMR when St. Pancras was rebuilt, it's what we have to live with.
Central government major schemes? local and central? Or all road OM&R?
