Defacing A Ticket For Delay Repay - Rationale

[trainJam]

As the title suggests - why is there a need to deface (ie cut in half) a used and expired ticket when applying for Delay Repay?
Are applications regularly rejected for this reason?

If it is expired, then surely it cannot be used again for any further travel purposes (anyone can read the date)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's so you can't claim it was unused and refund it.

 

[Haywain]

It's so you can't claim it was unused and refund it.

Even with an Advance ticket after the date of travel?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even with an Advance ticket after the date of travel?

Easier to ask the same of everyone rather than to confuse them by saying you only have to deface certain ticket types. I don't get the huge objection to this, tearing or cutting a ticket in half is easy.

 

[Adam Williams]

If it is expired, then surely it cannot be used again for any further travel purposes (anyone can read the date)?

Depends on the date on the ticket.

Plenty of occasions where an Advance or day ticket dated in the past is valid to use after the date printed on it, nowadays.

Perhaps it'll be a less frequent occurrence after an election.

 

[Watershed]

It's a nonsensical requirement in my eyes; not even all operators ask for this to be done. In any event, most retailers don't ask for physical tickets to be returned so defacing the ticket doesn't particularly prevent anything. As it's not a term of the NRCoT or in any Passenger's Charter, claims cannot validly be rejected for this reason (and I've had rejections overturned on appeal).

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a nonsensical requirement in my eyes; not even all operators ask for this to be done. In any event, most retailers don't ask for physical tickets to be returned so defacing the ticket doesn't particularly prevent anything.

Well, one thing it does prevent is a paper ticket being used again after a claim or refund.

 

[Class800]

How would this work in the case of a delay on the return leg of an off-peak period return where break of journey is made - and the 1st return journey is delayed, but another journey is due to be made (which could be more than the 28 days you have to claim after the original journey as it's one month)?

 

[Mike395]

I'd argue there's some logic to it for refunds - a passenger is only supposed to be requesting a refund after abandoning the use of that ticket, in virtually all other contexts Delay Repay or the TOC's Customer Services is currently the appropriate channel.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2024 ==

How would this work in the case of a delay on the return leg of an off-peak period return where break of journey is made - and the 1st return journey is delayed, but another journey is due to be made (which could be more than the 28 days you have to claim after the original journey as it's one month)?

Short answer - it doesn't. As @Watershed states, for Delay Repay purposes there's no rationale for asking that tickets are defaced.

 

[Haywain]

Well, one thing it does prevent is a paper ticket being used again after a claim or refund.

But that will represent a very small proportion of tickets, as almost all singles, day returns and the outward portions of (non Anytime) period returns carry no such risk.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How would this work in the case of a delay on the return leg of an off-peak period return where break of journey is made - and the 1st return journey is delayed, but another journey is due to be made (which could be more than the 28 days you have to claim after the original journey as it's one month)?

This will affect almost nobody, but it does say on the LNR site at least that if it's a season and you intend to make another journey then you can explain that this is the case. This would be obvious for a claim where the end station wasn't the end station on the ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2024 ==

But that will represent a very small proportion of tickets, as almost all singles, day returns and the outward portions of (non Anytime) period returns carry no such risk.

I wouldn't say very small, as while over in LNERland you may have forgotten about Off Peak Returns over on the WCML we haven't (yet)

 

[Class800]

I'd argue there's some logic to it for refunds - a passenger is only supposed to be requesting a refund after abandoning the use of that ticket, in virtually all other contexts Delay Repay or the TOC's Customer Services is currently the appropriate channel.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Feb 2024 ==


Short answer - it doesn't. As @Watershed states, for Delay Repay purposes there's no rationale for asking that tickets are defaced.

I suppose you can digitally deface the scan while keeping it for the rest of the journey after BoJ!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose you can digitally deface the scan while keeping it for the rest of the journey after BoJ!

In reality almost nobody is going to do a 28+ day break of journey, and almost all of the people who do* are probably on here or on Money Saving Expert!

The vast majority of people probably don't even know you're allowed to do this.

* e.g. ending a journey short at Milton Keynes Central and keeping the ticket in case you want to do MKC-Bletchley later.

 

[northwichcat]

It's so you can't claim it was unused and refund it.

Given all tickets have a ticket number on them, it should be no different to an e-ticket.

If it's the return part of an Off Peak Return or Anytime Return, it's not be dated and not yet reached the 'Valid to' date then maybe it's a different matter.

 

[Haywain]

I wouldn't say very small, as while over in LNERland you may have forgotten about Off Peak Returns over on the WCML we haven't (yet)

I haven't forgotten such tickets, as my comment tried to make clear, but it's only applicable to paper versions of those tickets and only the return portions. So that's 50% of those returns which are likely to be well below 50% of tickets sold overall making it a small proportion.

 

[Class800]

In reality almost nobody is going to do a 28+ day break of journey, and almost all of the people who do* are probably on here or on Money Saving Expert!

The vast majority of people probably don't even know you're allowed to do this.

* e.g. ending a journey short at Milton Keynes Central and keeping the ticket in case you want to do MKC-Bletchley later.

Accept it's not going to what everyone does. One example I've done a few times is Exeter Central to Plumstead off-peak return, BoJ at Cranbrook my home town on the way back (starting at Exeter due to office location). Then any time within the remaining month of validity, I've got effectively a free single to Exeter

 

[redreni]

Accept it's not going to what everyone does. One example I've done a few times is Exeter Central to Plumstead off-peak return, BoJ at Cranbrook my home town on the way back (starting at Exeter due to office location). Then any time within the remaining month of validity, I've got effectively a free single to Exeter

I would suggest making the delay repay claim right at the end of the 28 day window and conveniently "forgetting" to tear the ticket in half. They may approve your claim anyway. If they reject your claim because the ticket wasn't torn in half, wait until after you've completed your journey, tear it in half and send them the pictures along with your appeal.

 

[island]

Given all tickets have a ticket number on them, it should be no different to an e-ticket.

The provider refunding the ticket could be different to the provider paying DelayRepay, and ticket numbers for traditional paper tickets are not unique.

 

[Haywain]

The provider refunding the ticket could be different to the provider paying DelayRepay, and ticket numbers for traditional paper tickets are not unique.

What's the relevance of that in terms of defacing the ticket?

 

[Sleepy]

GWR don't ask you to deface, this was on return portions of CCST tickets ( low value) valid for up to a month ??

 

[Mainline421]

How would this work in the case of a delay on the return leg of an off-peak period return where break of journey is made - and the 1st return journey is delayed, but another journey is due to be made (which could be more than the 28 days you have to claim after the original journey as it's one month)?

Even if you break your journey for 28 days, isn't still technically considered one journey? So delay repay would apply to the arrival time at your final destination on day 29/30?

 

[island]

What's the relevance of that in terms of defacing the ticket?

The response was to someone who seemed to be implying that a record would be made of a given ticket number being claimed against under DelayRepay and therefore flagging up if a refund was also claimed.

 

[Wallsendmag]

The response was to someone who seemed to be implying that a record would be made of a given ticket number being claimed against under DelayRepay and therefore flagging up if a refund was also claimed.

This is an area that a lot of focus is on currently. Refunding and claiming delay Repay on the same ticket is far too common

 

[kkong]

As the title suggests - why is there a need to deface (ie cut in half) a used and expired ticket when applying for Delay Repay?

I've never been asked to deface or cut any tickets for Delay Repay claims I've made (TPE, LNER, ScotRail and possibly others).

 

[Hadders]

I've never been asked to deface or cut any tickets for Delay Repay claims I've made (TPE, LNER, ScotRail and possibly others).

It's an Abellio (or Transport UK Group nowadays) thing.

 

[Watershed]

I've never been asked to deface or cut any tickets for Delay Repay claims I've made (TPE, LNER, ScotRail and possibly others).

It's only a handful of TOCs that require this. That belies the fact that it's neither a contractual nor a sensible requirement.

 

[trainJam]

Even one version of the WMR postal delay repay form (the one with a larger font, for those who have seen both) asks you to cut the ticket in half.