London Buses Discussion

[TheManWho]

I seem to remember the ENX type being uncomfortable and rattly when I travelled on them nearly new. Now they are 12 years old! Not great for a high-profile route. Personally I think a high-spec single decker like a Citaro would be good for an express route. Or at least a newer Enviro200MMC which feel like they have better build quality than the original e200s

Unfortunately, Arriva London doesn't have enough Enviro200MMCs to the correct length, or Citaros for the route

 

[baza585]

Unfortunately, Arriva London doesn't have enough Enviro200MMCs to the correct length, or Citaros for the route

Then why did TfL give them the contract if they didn't have suitable buses?

 

[Goldfish62]

Then why did TfL give them the contract if they didn't have suitable buses?

The buses accepted are of the correct specified capacity and are 12 years old. Because it's a one year contract they will still be within the 14-15 year time limit at the end of the contract.

 

[Deerfold]

Then why did TfL give them the contract if they didn't have suitable buses?

Companies often don't have suitable buses at the point they win a contract, but expect to be able to by the time the contract starts.

 

[Goldfish62]

Companies often don't have suitable buses at the point they win a contract, but expect to be able to by the time the contract starts.

That's a moot point in this case because the buses offered were suitable. Arriva wouldn't have been award the contract otherwise.

On your point, yes, if vehicles are known to surplus because of the loss of another contract or are being displaced by new buses, in either case prior to the expected start case of the contract being bid for then that is a case where a contract can be awarded even though at the time the vehicles are not available, but will be by the commencement of the contract.

 

[TheManWho]

Then why did TfL give them the contract if they didn't have suitable buses?

As others have posted- the vehicles meet the specification set out in the tender.

 

[Mark L]

It was every 20 minutes in the immediate period before the rebranding, so 3bph to 4 bph = 33.33% increase. The 41% uptake in ridership is in relation to that.

Can someone please provide a link to Leon Daniels's comments on the SL5 in 'The Londoner' referred to earlier, as I'm not finding it and am keen to read them?

The basic frequency on the x26 was every 30 minutes with some slight variations in the peaks - see http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/X26.htm

 

[MPW]

Does anyone know if increased bus priority measures or bus lanes are part of the strategy for superloop once the routes are established? It seems obvious next step but I can't find any mention anywhere.

I saw a response of "noted" from TFL to suggestions of increased bus priority measures in the consultation.

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone know if increased bus priority measures or bus lanes are part of the strategy for superloop once the routes are established? It seems obvious next step but I can't find any mention anywhere.

It's a no-brainer.

I've only read vague waffle about plans for £xxm investment in bus priority schemes over the next couple of years.

Bus priority, lack thereof in London, is a whole topic in itself. There's some great schemes around, but not nearly enough of them.

 

[Snow1964]

It's a no-brainer.

I've only read vague waffle about plans for £xxm investment in bus priority schemes over the next couple of years.

Bus priority, lack thereof in London, is a whole topic in itself. There's some great schemes around, but not nearly enough of them.

The latest TfL Board papers suggest some changes and improvements to outer London bus routes. But another part of pack says bus revenue is below target, which suggests cuts.

Agenda for Board on Wednesday 7 February 2024, 10:00 - Modern Council

board.tfl.gov.uk

Page 14 of commissioners report suggests 5.4km of a target of 25km of bus lanes are in progress

 

[MasterSpenny]

Interestingly Go-Coach has done something rare for a TfL route and they have begun operating a service on the 464 with a van! Since when did vans operate on London bus routes ?
YouTube video linked below with this weird service - not my video

 

[Bishopstone]

Interestingly Go-Coach has done something rare for a TfL route and they have begun operating a service on the 464 with a van! Since when did vans operate on London bus routes ?

It's a van-derived minibus. When did the last such vehicle run in TfL service? Not sure, but I recall there was a bus route that ran through the Rotherhithe Tunnel using Mercedes Sprinter (?) based minibuses, until around the turn of the Millennium or perhaps later. My 'school bus' on the 193 around 1986 was a Ford Transit, and there were various Renault and Iveco van-derived buses in service in the London area well into the 90s. Interesting question!

I assume the alternative route used by the minibus on the 464 shuttle is via Lusted Hall Lane.

 

[90sWereBetter]

It's a van-derived minibus. When did the last such vehicle run in TfL service? Not sure, but I recall there was a bus route that ran through the Rotherhithe Tunnel using Mercedes Sprinter (?) based minibuses, until around the turn of the Millennium or perhaps later.

Aye, that was the original 395, which lasted until spring 2006. It was barely used iirc and I partially think it was withdrawn because the Sprinters would have been swamped when the East London Line upgrade began the following year.

The smallest vehicles on TfL service nowadays must be the Solos that Metroline use on the Hampstead Garden Surburb routes, closely followed by the Solos currently used by Stagecoach on the W12 and W5.

 

[Busoccultation]

The smallest vehicles on TfL service nowadays must be the Solos that Metroline use on the Hampstead Garden Surburb routes, closely followed by the Solos currently used by Stagecoach on the W12 and W5.

The W12 Solos are also 7.8m like the ones Metroline have for the Hampstead Garden Suburb routes, while the W5 Solo batch are longer at 8.8m so those ones are basically the same length as a short E200.

 

[Busaholic]

The basic frequency on the x26 was every 30 minutes with some slight variations in the peaks - see http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/X26.htm

Actually, we're both wrong! The timetable you refer to has a revision date of May 2022: a new timetable was introduced on 19/8/23 increasing the daytime service to every 15 minutes. There had been the intention in-between times to increase from every 30 to every 20 minutes, but this obviously got re-thought in view of the Superloop proposals. Anyway, the thrust of my point was the 41% upturn in passenger numbers, which still holds true.

 

[Deerfold]

Actually, we're both wrong! The timetable you refer to has a revision date of May 2022: a new timetable was introduced on 19/8/23 increasing the daytime service to every 15 minutes. There had been the intention in-between times to increase from every 30 to every 20 minutes, but this obviously got re-thought in view of the Superloop proposals. Anyway, the thrust of my point was the 41% upturn in passenger numbers, which still holds true.

The SL7 was introduced on 19/08/2023.

Third London Superloop route starts as X26 becomes SL7 - routeone

The TfL Superloop network will continue its growth on 19 August when service X26 between Heathrow and West Croydon is renumbered to SL7

www.route-one.net

The X26 was every 30 minutes until it became the SL7.

 

[MotCO]

Interestingly Go-Coach has done something rare for a TfL route and they have begun operating a service on the 464 with a van! Since when did vans operate on London bus routes ?

I think Tellings Golden Miller ran two Mercedes Sprints on route R8 around Orpington (BU04UTN and BU04UTP) around 2004 - 2006, when Metrobus too over the company and sourced some very short Optare Solos.

Why do Abellio, the main operator of 464, not run this special service?

Also, does the special service require tap-in? I so, is there a danger of double charging through passengers?

 

[Edvid]

Not a precise date, but I believe within the next couple of months.

The main holdup I understand has been due to issues with the Orpington charger being on Network Rail land.

According to a recent FoI answer, ieTram rollout is due to start early in June. (About 15 months after full fleet operation was originally intended, for the record.)

Request ID: FOI-3532-2324
Date published: 30 January 2024


Delays to the rollout of Irizar ie tram style buses for route 358

1. Would you be able to provide information about the delay in the rollout?

Unfortunately, power connections and land ownership has contributed to the delays of the pantograph installations at either end of the route.

2. When are you expecting to launch them into passenger service?

The new buses on the route 358 are due to enter passenger service in early June 2024.

3. When was the date that was originally supposed to roll out on route 358?

The original start date for operation of the full fleet was March 2023.

4. According to the blog post (linked below), it shows the number of respondents from various consultations requesting tram-style buses on more bus routes. Does TFL plan to fulfil the request by the respondents? https://clondoner92.blogspot.com/2023/08/my-suggestions-to-help-create-most.html

There are currently no further plans in the pipeline for tram like bus models, however the decision on vehicle proposals continues to be the responsibility of the Bus Operator.

5. Are there plans to purchase more tram buses for more London bus routes?

As above.

6. Can you reveal the costs for the infrastructure and purchase of Irizar ie tram buses for route 358?

The bus operator bid with these buses as part of their route tender bid. The cost of infrastructure and purchase is embedded within the route 358 contract.

Back in November they told Londonist it was planned for "spring 2024", so by that measure it hasn't changed.

 

[Goldfish62]

According to a recent FoI answer, ieTram rollout is due to start early in June. (About 15 months after full fleet operation was originally intended, for the record.)

Well, all I can say is that I was told by someone involved with the project that it'll be earlier than that.

Let's see who's right.

 

[H&I]

The link to the timetable for SL5 seems to be broken. Does anyone know when the first buses will depart on Saturday? Is it still going to be at 05:15?

 

[Edvid]

According to this it'll be 0500 for the first bus at both ends.

 

[H&I]

According to this it'll be 0500 for the first bus at both ends.

Thank you so much! As they both start at 05:00, I’m not sure whether I should go to Bromley or Croydon to catch the first bus.

 

[Mark L]

P

Actually, we're both wrong! The timetable you refer to has a revision date of May 2022: a new timetable was introduced on 19/8/23 increasing the daytime service to every 15 minutes. There had been the intention in-between times to increase from every 30 to every 20 minutes, but this obviously got re-thought in view of the Superloop proposals. Anyway, the thrust of my point was the 41% upturn in passenger numbers, which still holds true.

the May 2022 timetable was the one in use until the frequency uplift last August.

 

[johnsy112]

U2 is showing as running to West Drayton, instead of Brunel University on iBus and on bus stop waiting screens. Quite confusing for passengers. There was speculation on changes to the route but nothing has been confirmed yet

 

[Mikey C]

With Metroline winning the 28 from London Transit, I find it extraordinary that none of the 28/328/31 routes which run past Westbourne Park garage, will now be run by London Transit from there, and instead all will be run by Metroline.

 

[Busaholic]

With Metroline winning the 28 from London Transit, I find it extraordinary that none of the 28/328/31 routes which run past Westbourne Park garage, will now be run by London Transit from there, and instead all will be run by Metroline.

Extraordinary, agreed, and possibly hare-brained, but I'm admittedly no great fan of tendering or franchising in any setting.

 

[Edvid]

In addition to the SL5, today was also the first day in service for GB Kite Electroliners; not on the E7, but on rail replacement duties in lieu of Elizabeth line services.

(Not my pictures)

(Saturday 3rd February 2024) Transport UK | Wright GB Kite

LV73FHE 1708 is seen on stand at Stratford City waiting to depart on rail replacement service C (UL18) to Romford, this batch of buses are new for the E7 however have strayed onto rail replacement before running on route E7

www.flickr.com

Transport UK 1709 LV73FHF Romford 03-02-2024

Explore Dave Heath. London & Provincial Bus Photos' 29808 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Bedford OB]

In addition to the SL5, today was also the first day in service for GB Kite Electroliners; not on the E7, but on rail replacement duties in lieu of Elizabeth line services.

(Not my pictures)

(Saturday 3rd February 2024) Transport UK | Wright GB Kite

LV73FHE 1708 is seen on stand at Stratford City waiting to depart on rail replacement service C (UL18) to Romford, this batch of buses are new for the E7 however have strayed onto rail replacement before running on route E7

www.flickr.com

Transport UK 1709 LV73FHF Romford 03-02-2024

Explore Dave Heath. London & Provincial Bus Photos' 29808 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

It was actually one of those disastrous rail replacement days. Not down to the vehicles, apart from the fact that they were totally unsuitable for the work. They were packed to the gunnels all day and all evening with end to end standing passengers because the rail replacement service should have been, as it has in the past, all double deck. The combination of the closed railway and typically unattended roadworks at Chadwell Heath meant gridlock all day and well into the evening. The 86 had absolutely no chance, with journey after journey curtailed, and there were still huge queues waiting for buses in Ilford after 2100 yesterday evening. It won't be any consolation to those folks, but the buses did look very smart, the blinds were excellent, and there were some interesting other vehicles on the replacement job, such as at least one BM Coaches Enviro 400MMC. Whether it was down to poor planning, or resource contsraints (which would be understandable) I don't know, but the service was completely inadequate yesterday.

 

[Goldfish62]

With Metroline winning the 28 from London Transit, I find it extraordinary that none of the 28/328/31 routes which run past Westbourne Park garage, will now be run by London Transit from there, and instead all will be run by Metroline.

The way things are going Westbourne Park won't be running any routes, let alone ones that go past the shed!

 

[Snow1964]

The way things are going Westbourne Park won't be running any routes, let alone ones that go past the shed!

Maybe that's the plan, empty it out, get rid of the old legacy staff on ex Tower Transit and First conditions. Then move Park Royal routes into it. Park Royal (Atlas Road) is on remainder of shortish lease pending site redevelopment.