Fishguard to get 2 hourly service from September

[anthony263]

I think that's a bit lengthy, provided there are points close enough to the station you should be able to swap locos in 10mins if they have automatic coupling systems (158s can split in less than 5, but they tend to wait around a bit afterwards to let passengers on and off).

So no IEP to Pembroke Dock confirmed then, another reason to avoid them, think of all those tourists driving to Pembrokeshire or flying abroad instead.



Says here that headways are 6mins. 60 divided by 6 is 10 trains per hour. The document says:

So:

• 1tph PAD - SWA Express (INTERCITY 225)
• 1tph PAD - SWA Semi-Fast (IEP EMU)
• 1tph Manchester - SWA - Milford Haven (175 or 158)
• 1tph CDF - CMN - FGH via Swansea District Line (158 or 153 pair) (and this would not be used every other hour to start with. In the very long term I'd have a 2nd train per hour which would go on a reopened line to Aberystwyth).
  
• 1tph SWA - Cheltenham Spa (class 377) (all-stations)
• 1tph Maesteg - Ebbw Vale Parkway (class 377) (all-stations) (if you want 2tph to Maesteg you could join the 2nd train with the SWA - Cheltenham service or make it an extension of Vale Of Glamorgan trains.

That leaves 2 fast and 2 slow paths per hour for freight (frieght doesn't call at stations so class 90 hauled freight might be able to use a fast path).

Excellent idea's one idea i had was to run 1 of the maesteg services via the vale of glamorgan route. trains would leave maesteg @ 13 & 43 minutes past the hour with the ebbw vale train leaving @ 43 minutes past and has a journey time to cardiff of 47 minutes & ebbw vale in 1 hr 15 minutes

 

[Gareth Marston]

Cheers.

I've noticed Holyhead and Stranraer becoming more of "a line for locals" rather than "a line for ferry passengers" - presumably the same is true of Harwich too - didn't know whether the numbers justified a Fishguard service still.

aside the enthusiast speculation this is one area to watch as RyanAir and Michael O'Leary (there MD) haven't got where they are today without some dodgy deals that could become unstuck if go public and end the business. No cheap flights to Ireland then.

 

[Guilty Clouds]

Good to hear this news! Went to Fishguard a few years ago on the train, but had to get a bus back as the layover time didn't permit a visit to the town itself.
I'm all in favour of improved frequencies on rural lines, as only 2 or 4 trains per day can result in a lot of hanging around after a walk if you just miss a train...the Heart of Wales line is a prime example. 6 or 7 trains per day makes a rural line much more user friendly, and would probably encourage more use.
Anyway, enough of me dreaming of an ideal world!

 

[merlodlliw]

Good to hear this news! Went to Fishguard a few years ago on the train, but had to get a bus back as the layover time didn't permit a visit to the town itself.
I'm all in favour of improved frequencies on rural lines, as only 2 or 4 trains per day can result in a lot of hanging around after a walk if you just miss a train...the Heart of Wales line is a prime example. 6 or 7 trains per day makes a rural line much more user friendly, and would probably encourage more use.
Anyway, enough of me dreaming of an ideal world!

Agree with your opinion, alas the Howl & The Cambrian have had new infrastructure,a capital spend, in true statutory sector thinking, without the means or indeed the will to support extra services on the £Ms spent on these line improvements.

Bob

 

[anthony263]

Heart of wales certainly need a 2 hourly service and a service which arrives into swansea before 9am

 

[Pacerpilot]

Heart of wales certainly need a 2 hourly service and a service which arrives into swansea before 9am

Now now.... I already have to get out of bed at 0230 to work the current first service which arrives at 0908.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Heart of wales certainly need a 2 hourly service and a service which arrives into swansea before 9am

I agree, all active passenger lines in Wales (and some frieght only / shut lines too) should have at least a 2 hourly service, although an hourly service on certain lines (Aberystwyth and Milford Haven) is a higher piority than some lines which are currently 3-hourly getting 2-hourly. That said, I'm not sure all the halts on HOWL need a 2-hourly service, some of the trains that make up the full service should call and others should just serve the main stations (basicly the ones with passing loops plus Ammanford and Builth Road) (which if you don't run into passing issues should make the HOWL only a few minutes slower than the less direct route from Swansea to Shrewsbury via Cardiff). The problem with that idea is preventing any gaps longer than 2hrs with a mix of services with massivly varying journey times. A ValleyLines service would run to Glanaman & Garnant, allowing the faster HOWL services to miss out the stations south of Ammanford.

Now now.... I already have to get out of bed at 0230 to work the current first service which arrives at 0908.

I think the first service should start from Llandrindod Wells as two units, which run to Llanwrtyd Wells then split with 1 unit going from there to Shrewsbury and the other to Swansea, both arriving before 9am. That should provide oppertunities for passengers about halfway to commute to either Swansea or Shrewsbury and mean pepole don't need to get up so early (if you're from Shrewsbury I'd image the service you work is completly empty for quite some time).

 

[merlodlliw]

I think the first service should start from Llandrindod Wells as two units, which run to Llanwrtyd Wells then split with 1 unit going from there to Shrewsbury and the other to Swansea, both arriving before 9am. That should provide oppertunities for passengers about halfway to commute to either Swansea or Shrewsbury and mean pepole don't need to get up so early (if you're from Shrewsbury I'd image the service you work is completly empty for quite some time).[/QUOTE]

But the staff only work from either end?

Bob

 

[Rhydgaled]

But the staff only work from either end?

Bob

I've heard stabling the stock at an intermediate point suggested before, so I guess it's not too unreasonable an idea. If you can get staff who live in Llandrindod Wells it would make the service much more sencible, as I said does anyone use the present first service before halfway?

 

[junglejames]

Cheers.

I've noticed Holyhead and Stranraer becoming more of "a line for locals" rather than "a line for ferry passengers" - presumably the same is true of Harwich too - didn't know whether the numbers justified a Fishguard service still.

Stranraer still has quite a few ferry passengers on it. Fishguard also has quite a few, compared to the numbers on the trains.

The ferry itself is up and down. In the winter it can be quite quiet.
Apparently you could get away with scrapping the Pembroke Dock to Rosslare service, and just have the one ferry over to Ireland.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Cheers.

I've noticed Holyhead and Stranraer becoming more of "a line for locals" rather than "a line for ferry passengers" - presumably the same is true of Harwich too - didn't know whether the numbers justified a Fishguard service still.

ATW said to us (SARPA) last night some of "ash cloud" passengers have staid on ferry/rail and this is causing problems i.e need for extra rolling stock to meet peak ferry services that wasn't the case recently.

 

[tbtc]

Stranraer still has quite a few ferry passengers on it. Fishguard also has quite a few, compared to the numbers on the trains.

The ferry itself is up and down. In the winter it can be quite quiet.
Apparently you could get away with scrapping the Pembroke Dock to Rosslare service, and just have the one ferry over to Ireland.

It was certainly doubted on the "Glasgow - Stranraer services under threat of possible closure" thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32160 - though the market here isn't identical to the Fishguard one I appreciate
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

ATW said to us (SARPA) last night some of "ash cloud" passengers have staid on ferry/rail and this is causing problems i.e need for extra rolling stock to meet peak ferry services that wasn't the case recently.

Interesting, I hope that continues

I've not used the Fishguard ferries, but the Holyhead and Stranraer ones were much preferable to a "cheap" flight - nice to see a growing market (which was once shrinking)

 

[Pacerpilot]

I've heard stabling the stock at an intermediate point suggested before, so I guess it's not too unreasonable an idea. If you can get staff who live in Llandrindod Wells it would make the service much more sencible, as I said does anyone use the present first service before halfway?

The 0436 Swansea - Shrewsbury can be busy on certain days. Notably Thursday and Saturday mornings with revellers and Nightclub/Bar staff heading home... otherwise its pretty quiet until leaving Llandod and heading south again.

Staffing the train to start from Llandod would either require an early taxi from Carmarthen or the opening of a Traincrew Depot at Llandod.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The 0436 Swansea - Shrewsbury can be busy on certain days. Notably Thursday and Saturday mornings with revellers and Nightclub/Bar staff heading home... otherwise its pretty quiet until leaving Llandod and heading south again.

Staffing the train to start from Llandod would either require an early taxi from Carmarthen or the opening of a Traincrew Depot at Llandod.

Heart of Wales Travelers Assocation have for a long time floated the idea for a v small depot at Llandovery with 2 units starting there. As Pacer Pilot says the current 4 trains a day are more like 3 and a half trains a day because the times they operate.

 

[Pacerpilot]

Heart of Wales Travelers Assocation have for a long time floated the idea for a v small depot at Llandovery with 2 units starting there. As Pacer Pilot says the current 4 trains a day are more like 3 and a half trains a day because the times they operate.

You'd need quite a few crews to manage it though. You'd need to cover Annual leave, sickness, Crews off due to Rest as well as the services. You would also need a shunter/chargeman to operate the groundframe for stabling the units.

Id transfer there tomorrow! I love working the Central Wales services.

 

[quarella]

Somewhere between 1995 and 2000 there used to be an early morning empty stock that went so far up the HOW and worked back to Swansea arriving around 0830 if memory serves. Think it may have run from Llandovery.

 

[VideozVideoz]

You'd need quite a few crews to manage it though. You'd need to cover Annual leave, sickness, Crews off due to Rest as well as the services. You would also need a shunter/chargeman to operate the groundframe for stabling the units.

Id transfer there tomorrow! I love working the Central Wales services.

When heading into Shrewsbury on the morning train (arrival before 9am), where do the daily commuters start to board? Is it Llandod or Knighton?

 

[Pacerpilot]

When heading into Shrewsbury on the morning train (arrival before 9am), where do the daily commuters start to board? Is it Llandod or Knighton?

Thats off my route card mate. Llandod is far as I go. But there are usually a handful waiting there when we draw into the platfrom

 

[merlodlliw]

recalling when I worked out of Shrewsbury(news), what is now the 0519 to Swansea, this early train carried mails/news to Llandod etc and a few other local sorting offices,then Shrewsbury took over using road transport for mails & news. This was at the time when the the York/Aberystwyth TPO stopped and mails were put on a train from Crewe to Shrewsbury,after spending around an hour or so in Shrewsbury this Mixed train carried on to Aberystwyth.


Bob

 

[anthony263]

There is a atricle in the western mail/echo today about the fishguard service, just a couple of days after the article for more trains on the district line.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...o-station-for-them-to-stop-at-91466-28617659/

A bit of a surprise to see that they say at least 1 train will run to Claberston road.

I wonder if ATW should use loco hauled stock on heart of wales line services and free up a class 150/153 to provide more services on the fishguard line.

 

[Rhydgaled]

There are no buses from Goodwick to Cardigan/Newport at any time the train is likely to feed them. There's 1 at 7:45ish (am) and that's it, with one from Cardigan/Newport passing it on route to Haverfordwest in the other direction at the same time. The selection of services is rediculus, an all day shuttle to Carmarthen sounds more sencible than stopping short at Clarbeston Road somtimes to allow the odd service to Swansea. I think in the survey a few years back Carmarthen & Swansea demand added together fell just short of demand for Cardiff.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Where will the stock come from? it looks like a bit of politics in West Wales,election in five weeks, that's probably goodbye to the hourly Aberystwyths then.
Will the £1.4M be annual or for the three year trial. Note ATW have kept their hands in their pockets.
I await Gareth's view on this, he as got his ears to the ground. Could one 156 do the five up/down runs between Carmarthen to Fishguard ?
Bob

In England, there is a six week embargo on matters political before elections.

Is it only five weeks in Wales....as per your first point.

 

[merlodlliw]

In England, there is a six week embargo on matters political before elections.

Is it only five weeks in Wales....as per your first point.

The six weeks applies in Wales for M.Ps, however Wales have A.Ms & Ieuan the Grandad/Minister(those who read Wales On Sunday will know what I mean) will flaunt every opportunity, I have no idea of Purdah in WAG , but I am sure its less than 6 weeks.

The article in the Western Mail today is about par for the course,Ieuan forgot was there a station for the trains to stop at in his rush to stamp a political point in West Wales, The blame will no doubt as usual be blamed on Civil Servants, its like WAGAIR having no runway, farce comes to mind.

 

[krus_aragon]

I wonder if ATW should use loco hauled stock on heart of wales line services and free up a class 150/153 to provide more services on the fishguard line.

Not straight forward, given the reversal at Llanelli. I'm not sure if the points there would allow a run-around, and the fact that the station's sandwiched between two level crossings doesn't help either.

Thinking outside the box, however...

Say you wanted to avoid top-and-tailing the whole route, but wanted to maintain through running to Swansea. The single line at Gowerton doesn't have room for light engine workings, but a loco could be sent from Margam via the Swansea District, and couple up to the rear of the southbound service at Bynea, before reaching the mainline. The second loco could work Llanelli to Swansea, and on the return working the first loco could detach at Bynea.

 

[seagull]

Say you wanted to avoid top-and-tailing the whole route, but wanted to maintain through running to Swansea. The single line at Gowerton doesn't have room for light engine workings, but a loco could be sent from Margam via the Swansea District, and couple up to the rear of the southbound service at Bynea, before reaching the mainline. The second loco could work Llanelli to Swansea, and on the return working the first loco could detach at Bynea.

Indeed - but of course hopefully next year:

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/Doubling-rail-track-great-travellers/article-3358767-detail/article.html

the single line at Gowerton will be consigned to history.

 

[bluenoxid]

You'd need quite a few crews to manage it though. You'd need to cover Annual leave, sickness, Crews off due to Rest as well as the services. You would also need a shunter/chargeman to operate the groundframe for stabling the units.

Id transfer there tomorrow! I love working the Central Wales services.

Why have a depot and taxi's? Why not get a local hotel that is amiable to this business or even a converted sleeper carriage and make it a sub depot of a larger depot. Yes, OK, some people are not going to like the four/five nights stabled away from home but others may enjoy it.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Indeed - but of course hopefully next year:

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/Doubling-rail-track-great-travellers/article-3358767-detail/article.html

the single line at Gowerton will be consigned to history.

That re-doubling, as nice as it sounds could actually be completly un-necessary, and even detremental. Currently I think there are 1.5 trains per hour each way over that section. That is enough to have a service from each of the three west Wales brachces to Swansea every two hours. For Cardiff and Bridgend, it is faster via the Swansea district line, which could be in danger of cutbacks after Gowerton's re-doubled. With the current infrastucture, more 150s/153s and a larger number of 158s replacing our 175 fleet we probablly could have:

• 1tph express alternatly to Pembroke and Milford (via Swansea)
• 0.5tph stopper Swansea to Whitland, splitting to Milford and Tenby
• 0.5tph express Fishguard & Goodwick to Cardiff via Swansea district line
• More services via district line if there's enough demand

It would however be better to have Gowerton doubled, but only if it is not at the cost of the District line. You could then have the same service pattern, but with the stopper hourly from Whitland to Swansea instead of splitting.

 

[merlodlliw]

Indeed - but of course hopefully next year:

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/Doubling-rail-track-great-travellers/article-3358767-detail/article.html

the single line at Gowerton will be consigned to history.

Look at the magic words ""will probably go ahead next year,", Like the Wrexham redouble, might go ahead in 2012, even though the dosh is ring fenced.

Bob

 

[anthony263]

Just found this site:

http://fishguardtrains.info/?p=42

 

[Pacerpilot]

Look at the magic words ""will probably go ahead next year,", Like the Wrexham redouble, might go ahead in 2012, even though the dosh is ring fenced.

Bob

There has been a lot of preparation work carried out already. The vegetation has been cut back along the length of the old track bed, and the Cardiff crews have learned the District Line in preparation for the diverted services.