Haywain
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LNER is a minor operator in West Yorkshire, much more focussed on long distance journeys and has no reason to promote a West Yorkshire product focussed on local travel.
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Ranger & Rover Tickets - Shrouded in Secrecy
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And similarly Lincolnshire Day Rangers aren't valid on LNER services at all, with Peterborough – Grantham limited to EMR Liverpool – Norwich services, Newark to Castle station only (which seems slightly odd as I think EMR has some Grimsby starters and some services taking the long way round from Peterborough at North Gate), Doncaster only accessible via Gainsborough and Retford not at all.
(I know of those only Grantham's actually in Lincolnshire, but considering the difficulty of getting around by rail entirely within Lincolnshire the extra stations seem sensible.)
redreni
Established Member
Well, quite, but the only reason I may end up using a day Rover on their train is
(a) their pricing strategy and booking horizon is such that I've already booked the London to Doncaster leg with another operator, and
(b) their pricing strategy for a flexible ticket between Doncaster and Leeds (or their cut of a Doncaster to Halifax ticket that is valid on their train) is such that it is better to buy a day Rover despite the fact I only intend to make two train trips and one bus trip (none of any great length) within West Yorkshire.
In a saner world someone wishing to go London > Halifax > Leeds wouldn't dream of doing anything other than buying one ticket from London to Halifax and a second one from Halifax to Leeds, but sadly we're some way off that particular panacea.
anothertyke
Member
But we know the WY ticket is not valid at Donny. The question is whether you can buy one there. It is an LNER station, is there a Northern TVM? If there is, it will sell a rover ticket. Calling the Doncaster correspondent.
Anyway bit of a molehill really. Get to Donny, see if GC is running, if not see whether they will sell a WY Daysaver, if not it's going to cost 70p more. Looking at other threads here, Chester will sell any day rover you want to buy while Sheffield will not sell Manchester rovers. It seems to be a bit of a mixed picture.
Haywain
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Yes, there is.
redreni
Established Member
Excellent.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
It's not the 70p so much as the requirement to take a train that stops at South Elmsall if splitting between a single and a day return ticket at South Elmsall. It's not just that those trains are slow; they're also infrequent, so it might not be convenient to do that. Splitting between a single and a daily zonal ticket enables the non-stop split.
A few years ago there used to be the "Cherwell Day Ranger" ticket that cost £5. This ticket was cheaper than the then £6.40 return to Oxford (from Reading). I believe the validity of the ticket was from Reading, all the way through to Banbury.
Needless to say when I discovered this ticket, I would go to the ticket office to purchase this. On one occasion, I recall asking if many were sold, for which I was pretty much told "next to none". A good few months after I regularly started purchasing this ticket, it was withdrawn from sale. To this day I still believe I was part responsible for this ticket going. From hardly selling any, to at least one a week must of registered somewhere!
Needless to say when I discovered this ticket, I would go to the ticket office to purchase this. On one occasion, I recall asking if many were sold, for which I was pretty much told "next to none". A good few months after I regularly started purchasing this ticket, it was withdrawn from sale. To this day I still believe I was part responsible for this ticket going. From hardly selling any, to at least one a week must of registered somewhere!
I used to use this ticket, it was weekends only as I remember. Was definitely cheaper than a day return. The ticket office were surprised to be asked for one, and once they were even more shocked as I was the second customer to ask for one.
Was a good way of using up Rail Travel Vouchers, as you couldn't get Delay Repay as cash in those days.
Yes, you are right. It was weekends only.
There were three variants.
Reading to Banbury
Didcot to Banbury
Oxford to Banbury
With also travel to Bicester Village also included in the validity area - when the service was under GWR control.
The Reading to Banbury one was £5 with railcard discount.
It was a good ticket to use for splitting journeys to Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham and beyond.
Now replaced with the more expensive 'Oxfordshire Day Ranger' - that now costs £13.20 with a rail card.
Cheapest return ticket to Banbury (from Reading) is now £10.25.
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threepymeepy
Member
I did get a little bit addicted to railrover.org as a source of information but now Malwarebytes flags it as dangerous every time I try to visit and my work computer also gives a sort of 'danger: not secure' error message. This never used to happen. Does anyone know what's going on with it? There just isn't another useful site that I can find but I'm not going there if it's been hacked or something.
Thanks
Thanks
mangyiscute
Established Member
From what I can see it doesn't have the most secure connection, so if you were to enter information such as passwords or credit card info on the site it could be publicly exposed. However, I see no reason that doing something like that would be necessary and simply visiting the site and browsing the information on there is still totally fine to do.I did get a little bit addicted to railrover.org as a source of information but now Malwarebytes flags it as dangerous every time I try to visit and my work computer also gives a sort of 'danger: not secure' error message. This never used to happen. Does anyone know what's going on with it? There just isn't another useful site that I can find but I'm not going there if it's been hacked or something.
Thanks
Birmingham
Member
Sounds like the developer has let the SSL certificate expire. Might be worth dropping them an email via the contact details on the website.
RJ
Established Member
The Day Travelcard in London is quite a popular product, though it seems to be the case the majority of people I sell them to cannot remember the name of the product or don’t actually ask for it, instead requesting a more expensive day return ticket.
Uptake is down to how these products are marketed.
Uptake is down to how these products are marketed.
Statto
Established Member
Merseyside has, Merseyrail Daysaver, only valid on the whole of Merseyrail, it's £5.95 adults, but not valid 06.31 to 0929 Monday to Friday, the all area Saveaway is 5p more, same time restrictions, & same validity on Merseyrail as the Daysaver, but wider validity including buses, ferries, & trains from Lime Street main line platforms, in the whole of Merseyside.
Mcr Warrior
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Does this excellent value product appear anywhere on BR Fares?
Kite159
Veteran Member
It's rubbish value compared to the £6 saveaway which is valid on buses, the ferry & other trains within Merseyside.
Yes, but it is not set up as a Ranger. To find the day saver on BRFares, enter a Merseyrail station as the origin, then for the destination one of:-
ME ONLY AREA X (where X is B, C, D, F or G)
or
NORTHWIRRALLINES (for the all areas product)
if you get “no fares” it probably means the origin station is outside the destimation area. Example for an Area C Day Saver from Liverpool Stations.
Although set up as “single” in the database, Merseyrail’s ticket issuing system will print the tickets in a layout similar to a Travelcard or season.
It’s widely used and known about because for many journeys off-peak it is the cheapest ticket, even if the customer is only making one journey. Merseyrail axed many of their off-peak fares many years ago, “replacing” them with the Day Saver.
redreni
Established Member
Travelled today. Other than the football being off due to a frozen pitch everything went to plan. Just to share my experience:
Kings Cross ticket office couldn't sell me a West Yorkshire Daysaver Train+Bus. They didn't refuse, but they didn't seem to have heard of any such ticket and couldn't find it on their screen. Not even when I provided the four-digit code taken from BRFares.
Doncaster LNER ticket office sold me the single to South Elmsall and the West Yorkshire Daysaver without hesitation. The lady said they sell them quite regularly.
The Northern TVM was also working and had a comprehensive range of Rovers and Rangers on offer, so I could have bought it from the TVM had I needed to.
I was pleased to note there was absolutely no drama about the non-stop split when my tickets were checked on the LNER train I used to get from Doncaster to Leeds.
Haywain
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In many years of working at King's Cross I was never once asked for such a ticket. I suspect I could find it on the ticket issuing system but wouldn't have known if it needed special ticket stock. On the other hand I can recall such tickets being sold quite routinely on my occasional visits to Doncaster Travel Centre.
Not a rover or ranger, but I had to go to a ticket office today (rare occurrence for me) to get a Travelcard from another station to London. The SWR TVM wouldn't sell me the Super Off-Peak Thameslink Only. Similarly no online website would because of engineering work diversions meaning there was no Thameslink route to London.
The ticket office happily obliged with no questions asked (I did expect a "have you got a ticket to there already to be honest).
Somewhat convinced me to use TOs occasionally after previous bad experiences.
The ticket office happily obliged with no questions asked (I did expect a "have you got a ticket to there already to be honest).
Somewhat convinced me to use TOs occasionally after previous bad experiences.
redreni
Established Member
I now use them whenever possible, now that I know ministers take an interest in their sales figures. I wouldn't want ministers in the next government to get it into their heads that they might not be wanted or needed.
mangyiscute
Established Member
To be honest, I'm surprised so many people have bad experiences with ticket offices, every time I've spoken to people there in many different stations they have been friendly and helpful and every single one of them has been able to find the ranger/rover I want with a bit of prompting and using railrover.org to find the ticket code
redreni
Established Member
I don't know why the chap couldn't find it when I gave him the code. It was the same code the lady at Doncaster used - she had a little card with the codes for various Rovers and Rangers written on it.
Incidentally the Railrover site doesn't have the code for the bus & train version of the WY Daysaver, just the train only version. Hence I had to look it up on BRFares.
Although I have never worked in a ticket office, there must be a fair chance that some of those who have had poor experiences are because they don't know exactly what they want, they are unable to articulate what they want, what they want is no longer available or never has been, or the conditions (or, in the case of Rangers/ Rovers, the area covered) have changed. I guess that when a TOC changes the area it covers, there is a chance that the area of a Rover/ Ranger will change too(?), particularly if there are sections it no longer operates in.
As an example of the latter, there is a Ranger ticket that I used to purchase pretty much annually, haven't used it for some years. I've looked today, still available with the same name but range widened (and prices hiked massively, presumably because of wider range). If I still lived in the same area and hadn't looked it up, I might be spending time explaining to the office staff that I just want to go to .... and getting frustrated as a result.
The nudging point is well made, we cannot expect the staff to be fully aware of every rail option. I once wanted a ticket for a journey I had previously been on, when told the price, I indicated that it had previously been cheaper and started explaining more, when the staff member said that I would be travelling via ..., then we were on the same track. I had stipulated the TOC for that part of the journey when it was easier for him if I gave a place on route. Sometimes as (potential) passengers we don't help ourselves.
There will be ticket office staff who shouldn't be in the job but then there are in every profession.
redreni
Established Member
I think the problem is partly a lack of recognition, in some places, that it is perfectly legitimate to want to buy a rover at a station outside the zone covered by the Rover. In my case I was at Kings Cross, I told the chap I already had a ticket to Doncaster and waved said ticket in his general direction, and I asked to buy a single from Doncaster to South Elmsall as well as the Rover. Yet you hear stories about some major stations simply refusing point blank to sell Rovers that aren't valid to travel from that station. This could be interpreted as an attempt to make passengers pay twice for their train journey into the Rover's zone of validity.
One of the big issues with Rangers and Rovers is that the public name and the name in the fares database aren't always the same. This mostly stems from the old APTIS machines having a 16 character limit.
For example: System 1 multi-modal Travelcards for Greater Manchester appear as DAYSAVER TB, TM and TBM reflecting validity on Train, Bus and/or Metro; Coast & Peaks Rovers appear as CST PKS 4-8 RVR; and at one point the All Line Rover used something like FDM OF BRITAIN (normally used for BritRail passes, back when selected stations could issue them in exchange for a prepaid voucher) to make them easier to issue on APTIS.
Birmingham
Member
Quite. My favourite ticket office clerks are not necessarily those who know everything off the top of their heads, but those who will happily look and work with you — if you have any expertise to offer — to find what you need. Spent over five minutes with a ticket clerk at my local station recently to get a change of route excess in one direction only but they were only too happy to help and to get me exactly what I wanted. The ticket wasn’t even for immediate travel from that station but that was no problem.
anothertyke
Member
There's always one, but the view of the really helpful guys at my local station, Horsforth, is that without the massive help and support of the travelling public, the climbdown over ticket office closures would never have happened. And my view is that appreciation reflects the quality of service they provide on 99% of occasions.
redreni
Established Member
I'd like to agree that it's only a small minority who aren't as helpful as they could be, but thinking back to my last dozen or so ticket office visits my personal experience has been a great deal more mixed than that. I will happily agree there are many really skilled, knowledgeable, friendly and helpful people working in ticket offices.
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