Signalling decisions at Shrewsbury - whether to hold back late trains

[robspaceman]

Something I’ve noticed quite frequently happening is that the morning Holyhead-Cardiff ‘express’ often gets stuck behind a late running Manchester-Cardiff (the latter of which operates as a stopper south of Shrewsbury) and is then therefore hopelessly late into Cardiff- thereby negating its value (if it ever had any) of being a train suitable for a day-long business meeting in the Welsh capital.

With just 20 mins between them in the timetable it doesn’t take much delay on the Manchester-Cardiff train to cause this problem. If the ex-Holyhead is on time, surely a late running ex-Manchester can be held a few mins more at Shrewsbury to allow the former to overtake it- and anyone on the ex-Manchester who wants a major station down the marches a bit sooner can just hop across the platform from 7-4 at Shrewsbury.

Eg today the ex-Manchester would only needed to have waited a few more mins at Shrewsbury to allow this to happen.

But the ex-Holyhead then had to trundle along behind the stopper all the way to Cardiff, and was accordingly 22 mins late into Cardiff.

While it’s great that today both trains were mk4 and 67s, I’m sure the stop start nature of the ex-Manchester south of Shrewsbury working doesn’t help things (but that’s another discussion).

It’s not even like they’re different train companies. And delay repay claims will come in for two trains instead of just one.

As someone who doesn’t know what happens behind the scenes.. Who makes these decisions? The signallers at Shrewsbury? Or are they working to instructions from Cardiff?

 

[Llanigraham]

Is the other through south bound line blocked by other movements, therefore not allowing the delayed one to be overtaken?

 

[The Planner]

Something I’ve noticed quite frequently happening is that the morning Holyhead-Cardiff ‘express’ often gets stuck behind a late running Manchester-Cardiff (the latter of which operates as a stopper south of Shrewsbury) and is then therefore hopelessly late into Cardiff- thereby negating its value (if it ever had any) of being a train suitable for a day-long business meeting in the Welsh capital.

With just 20 mins between them in the timetable it doesn’t take much delay on the Manchester-Cardiff train to cause this problem. If the ex-Holyhead is on time, surely a late running ex-Manchester can be held a few mins more at Shrewsbury to allow the former to overtake it- and anyone on the ex-Manchester who wants a major station down the marches a bit sooner can just hop across the platform from 7-4 at Shrewsbury.

Eg today the ex-Manchester would only needed to have waited a few more mins at Shrewsbury to allow this to happen.

But the ex-Holyhead then had to trundle along behind the stopper all the way to Cardiff, and was accordingly 22 mins late into Cardiff.

While it’s great that today both trains were mk4 and 67s, I’m sure the stop start nature of the ex-Manchester south of Shrewsbury working doesn’t help things (but that’s another discussion).

It’s not even like they’re different train companies. And delay repay claims will come in for two trains instead of just one.

As someone who doesn’t know what happens behind the scenes.. Who makes these decisions? The signallers at Shrewsbury? Or are they working to instructions from Cardiff?

It would have had to be held at least 15 minutes as the Holyhead Cardiff left at 0807 as booked and its absolute block signaling, so the Manchester couldn't pass Sutton Bridge until the Holyhead cleared Dorrington at 0817. It would have been a control decision I suspect.

 

[craigybagel]

It would have had to be held at least 15 minutes as the Holyhead Cardiff left at 0807 as booked and its absolute block signaling, so the Manchester couldn't pass Sutton Bridge until the Holyhead cleared Dorrington at 0817. It would have been a control decision I suspect.

Being pedantic here but there is an IB between Sutton Bridge and Dorrington at Condover. It probably only saves you a minute or two though, it's too close to Dorrington to be much use.

 

[The Planner]

Being pedantic here but there is an IB between Sutton Bridge and Dorrington at Condover. It probably only saves you a minute or two though, it's too close to Dorrington to be much use.

We dont take account of it in a plan though. I have no doubt if TfW or a FOC decided it would offer capacity we would have to start using it.

 

[craigybagel]

We dont take account of it in a plan though. I have no doubt if TfW or a FOC decided it would offer capacity we would have to start using it.

Indeed, but surely for on the day holds like this it would be taken into account?

To be fair normally when I'm held at Shrewsbury to follow something down the Marches we normally get released almost straight away, but only as far as Sutton Bridge.

 

[Llanigraham]

Indeed, but surely for on the day holds like this it would be taken into account?

To be fair normally when I'm held at Shrewsbury to follow something down the Marches we normally get released almost straight away, but only as far as Sutton Bridge.

I hope you're not blocking us going down the Cambrain!!

 

[craigybagel]

I hope you're not blocking us going down the Cambrain!!

Not to worry, the section signal on the mainline is a long way clear of the junction!