Real Boat Trains

[HaxbyTraveller]

I have a children's book from way back which describes a boat train from Victoria which was actually a sleeper. It ran onto the boat, had the wheels adjusted to French gauge and then ran on in France when it landed. I've never found any other reference to this, anywhere. Did this really happen?

 

[anothertyke]

I have a children's book from way back which describes a boat train from Victoria which was actually a sleeper. It ran onto the boat, had the wheels adjusted to French gauge and then ran on in France when it landed. I've never found any other reference to this, anywhere. Did this really happen?

It certainly did. The Night Ferry ran from Victoria to Paris and Brussels via Dover Western Dock and Dunkerque. I travelled on it once in approx 1979,not long before the end. In its heyday it was one of the heaviest passenger trains in Britain and in steam days was usually double headed.

 

[Magdalia]

I travelled on it once in approx 1979,not long before the end.

Which was in 1980.

The Night Ferry ran from Victoria

Using platform 1 or 2 that could be "fenced off" for customs purposes.

had the wheels adjusted to French gauge

Track gauge is the same so this wasn't necessary.

 

[Gloster]

I have a children's book from way back which describes a boat train from Victoria which was actually a sleeper. It ran onto the boat, had the wheels adjusted to French gauge and then ran on in France when it landed. I've never found any other reference to this, anywhere. Did this really happen?

The track gauge in France is the same as that in Britain, so no need to adjust the wheels; the loading gauge (the height, width and overhang) is slightly larger in France than Britain, so the coaches were built to the British dimensions and looked a tiny bit small next to normal French coaches. The train ran from 1936 to 1980, with a break from 1939 to 1947 due to a little local difficulty.

 

[zwk500]

There exists video evidence of the train:

The bit about the night ferry starts at approximately 11:40.

 

[StephenHunter]

One of the sleeper coaches is at the Shildon Museum.

 

[WesternLancer]

I have a children's book from way back which describes a boat train from Victoria which was actually a sleeper. It ran onto the boat, had the wheels adjusted to French gauge and then ran on in France when it landed. I've never found any other reference to this, anywhere. Did this really happen?

Good feature here - including posters for the service from periods of operation. The train was long running (apart from in war time).

Night Ferry – Shamrock Trains

Few luxury trains evoke such passions as the Night Ferry – a train service that linked London and Paris and in time several other European destinations – making it Britain’s only truly international…

shamrocktrains.com

I very much regret not having used it - which would have been possible for me back in the 1970s

 

[HaxbyTraveller]

Good feature here - including posters for the service from periods of operation. The train was long running (apart from in war time).

Night Ferry – Shamrock Trains

Few luxury trains evoke such passions as the Night Ferry – a train service that linked London and Paris and in time several other European destinations – making it Britain’s only truly international…

shamrocktrains.com

I very much regret not having used it - which would have been possible for me back in the 1970s

Thank you so much. Like you I wish I had used it. I had no idea that it had limped along just into the 1980s!

 

[WesternLancer]

There exists video evidence of the train:

The bit about the night ferry starts at approximately 11:40.

It's a great sequence in that film - gives a real sense of what it must have been like! (or one would hope it was like!)

 

[30907]

I used the route coming back from my first Interrail in 1972, but of course in second class so you were turfed out at Dunkerque and had to walk on board. I think I then used the local service from Dover to Bromley S not the NF.

Bringing things up to date but off-topic:
There are gauge-changing sleepers (they change the bogies) to/from the former USSR and one surviving train ferry to/from Sicily which several members have reported on.
Spain runs loads of trains that change gauge using an ingenious system that moves the wheels on the axle (and then locks them in place!) but none of them are sleepers these days

 

[anothertyke]

A few memories of my trip.

The coach was clean but fairly spartan. I did get some sleep on the boat crossing but inevitably there was some shunting. The breakfast was minimal. When I woke up properly we were not even at Hazebrouck. The one (or possibly two) Brussels coaches had missed the train at Dunkerque and were attached to the next one. So we were maybe 90 mins late into Brussels. Then I confused Brussels Midi and Nord and had to take a long tram ride to get to my meeting at the Berlaymont. When I got there they were amazed I had made it because British Airways was on strike.

So of course when I got to the airport in the evening, all cancelled. I managed to exchange my ticket for British Midland to Birmingham. By the time I got to New Street the last 'cross country' up to Leeds had gone and I had to go up to Crewe and get on the Shrewsbury-York mailtrain getting home about 2 or 3am.

So one of my few claims to fame is to have done the Night Ferry and Stockport to Stalybridge in a day.

 

[WesternLancer]

A few memories of my trip.

The coach was clean but fairly spartan. I did get some sleep on the boat crossing but inevitably there was some shunting. The breakfast was minimal. When I woke up properly we were not even at Hazebrouck. The one (or possibly two) Brussels coaches had missed the train at Dunkerque and were attached to the next one. So we were maybe 90 mins late into Brussels. Then I confused Brussels Midi and Nord and had to take a long tram ride to get to my meeting at the Berlaymont. When I got there they were amazed I had made it because British Airways was on strike.

So of course when I got to the airport in the evening, all cancelled. I managed to exchange my ticket for British Midland to Birmingham. By the time I got to New Street the last 'cross country' up to Leeds had gone and I had to go up to Crewe and get on the Shrewsbury-York mailtrain getting home about 2 or 3am.

So one of my few claims to fame is to have done the Night Ferry and Stockport to Stalybridge in a day.

Interesting to read. So was there a specific reason you didn't use the Night Ferry both ways? (perhaps simply to allow you to get back to Leeds on the same day as your meeting)

 

[anothertyke]

I think it was probably a Friday meeting, I had one toddler and one on the way and needed to get back. If I'd gone by air I'd have got no further than Manchester Airport. If I recall, the NF saved me a night in a hotel in Brussels so was not that expensive and I could probably leave Leeds after work on the Thu. So, as with the sleeper trains which are making a comeback in Europe, it did work for me as well as being something I wanted to do having stood by the tracks at Dulwich and watched it go by in the 50s.

I've often thought about going to Paris by the old route as recommended by the Man in Seat 61, but it seems to be very difficult now with so little foot passenger travel on the ferries.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think it was probably a Friday meeting, I had one toddler and one on the way and needed to get back. If I'd gone by air I'd have got no further than Manchester Airport. If I recall, the NF saved me a night in a hotel in Brussels so was not that expensive and I could probably leave Leeds after work on the Thu. So, as with the sleeper trains which are making a comeback in Europe, it did work for me as well as being something I wanted to do having stood by the tracks at Dulwich and watched it go by in the 50s.

I've often thought about going to Paris by the old route as recommended by the Man in Seat 61, but it seems to be very difficult now with so little foot passenger travel on the ferries.

Thanks

A few years ago I got a bit bored with always using Eurostar for French trips (which did not involve final destination of Paris anyway) and we did a selection of cross channel ferries for a change - we opted for the overnight ones with Brittany Ferries from Portsmouth or Poole as per seat61 advice. They were all good for foot passengers, tho the transfer from local station to harbour is of course not so simple these days.

I agree it would be pleasant to go Kent to Calais type route as a foot passenger too, but certainly much slower these days.

 

[Rescars]

Bringing things up to date but off-topic:
There are gauge-changing sleepers (they change the bogies) to/from the former USSR and one surviving train ferry to/from Sicily which several members have reported on.
Spain runs loads of trains that change gauge using an ingenious system that moves the wheels on the axle (and then locks them in place!) but none of them are sleepers these days

The Swiss have recently installed some sophisticated gauge changing facilities between standard and metre gauge routes at Zweisimmen - again not for sleepers, but the trains may connect with lake steamers!