TFL Wrong Oyster Usage - Fare avoidance

[RB1]

Hello,
So I am 20 and a London student looking to get into Finance. I made my return to University today to do some exams. I accidentally took my little brothers Oyster (11-15) and used it for my journey from waterloo station. This has happened before because me and my little brothers oyster have the same wallet and are placed in the same box. I was running late for my university exam, rushed out and picked up my little brothers oyster up instead of my student oyster (as i said they are in the same box, within the same looking wallet). I got caught by inspectors and gave them the same story that Ive explained above. Gave my details ect... When mentioned how long have I been using the wrong oyster I said 5 months because as mentioned before I've made this mistake before, in reality it could be longer. I don't really really remember the first time I accidentally used my brothers oyster. It going to look bad because i've done it multiple times but yeah. The inspector then asked if I had any other means to pay for the train travel and I responded no and that was that. I asked him would it just be a fine and would there be any sort of convictions that would appear on a DBS check. He said I would receive a letter. Once I receive this letter I needed to email them or send some sort of letter pleading guilty and say something along the lines of "Apologies I understand that my actions are unjustifiable...I am student struggling with finance...I will be willing to pay any fines/charges incurred due to this behaviour". In short, he said if i plead guilty, tell them my situation and apologise sincerely I will just have to pay a fine. Is this the correct action to take in order to avoid some sort of criminal conviction - I dont really care about the fine too much. If it helps I do come from a working class poorer background where my father has received child benefits and i'm eligible to receive financial bursaries from my university. I also took a video and picture of me and my brothers identical oyster wallets as soon as I got home in case thats of any use.
1) Could you just outline the process ie. this letter comes first after do this.... and What would the best course of action be to avoid criminal conviction as I plan to become an auditor
2) What would the other outcome be. I hear you could be convicted on a bylaw which isnt as serious and doesnt show up on DBS checks. If convicted through this how long would it take to be spent or for me not to have to declare it anymore when applying for jobs.

 

[30907]

First question: did you travel from Waterloo (or W East) National Rail or from Waterloo tube station?
Both SWR and SE train companies are generally amenable to offering an out of court settlement if you engage with them, but TfL who run the tube are unlikely to do so as it is their policy to prosecute - however, they seem consistently to prosecute under the Byelaws and for a single offence only, so it is not likely to have too serious an effect on your career (provided you do not conceal your conviction if asked!).

However, you have admitted that you (may) have used the wrong card before - this might suggest you have (had) a casual approach to paying the correct fare. An obvious remedy might be to mark the wallets differently - better late than never!

You will have to wait for the letter, which may take some weeks, and will ask for your version of events. Come back to use when that happens and we can help.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,
So I am 20 and a London student looking to get into Finance. I made my return to University today to do some exams. I accidentally took my little brothers Oyster (11-15) and used it for my journey from waterloo station. This has happened before because me and my little brothers oyster have the same wallet and are placed in the same box. I was running late for my university exam, rushed out and picked up my little brothers oyster up instead of my student oyster (as i said they are in the same box, within the same looking wallet). I got caught by inspectors and gave them the same story that Ive explained above. Gave my details ect... When mentioned how long have I been using the wrong oyster I said 5 months because as mentioned before I've made this mistake before, in reality it could be longer. I don't really really remember the first time I accidentally used my brothers oyster. It going to look bad because i've done it multiple times but yeah. The inspector then asked if I had any other means to pay for the train travel and I responded no and that was that. I asked him would it just be a fine and would there be any sort of convictions that would appear on a DBS check. He said I would receive a letter. Once I receive this letter I needed to email them or send some sort of letter pleading guilty and say something along the lines of "Apologies I understand that my actions are unjustifiable...I am student struggling with finance...I will be willing to pay any fines/charges incurred due to this behaviour". In short, he said if i plead guilty, tell them my situation and apologise sincerely I will just have to pay a fine. Is this the correct action to take in order to avoid some sort of criminal conviction - I dont really care about the fine too much. If it helps I do come from a working class poorer background where my father has received child benefits and i'm eligible to receive financial bursaries from my university. I also took a video and picture of me and my brothers identical oyster wallets as soon as I got home in case thats of any use.
1) Could you just outline the process ie. this letter comes first after do this.... and What would the best course of action be to avoid criminal conviction as I plan to become an auditor
2) What would the other outcome be. I hear you could be convicted on a bylaw which isnt as serious and doesnt show up on DBS checks. If convicted through this how long would it take to be spent or for me not to have to declare it anymore when applying for jobs.

Welcome to the forum

Yes, I think you need some help understanding the process that will now happen. There are various threads on TfL misuse of Oyster cards that you can look over - this one may give you some outline idea. [EDIT - might be different if it was not TfL staff who stopped you as mentioned in post #2]

Caught using Student Oyster

Hi Hope everyone is well. I was travelling from Elm park to harringay green while travelling on Overground the ticket checker stopped me & checked that whether i have a valid ticket or not. It was a bad day for me as my wife gave me her student card for the top up which i was in hurry & i tapped...

www.railforums.co.uk

But it's not usually the case that TfL will issue you with a 'fine' and that will be the end of the matter. What the inspector was probably explaining was that you will get a letter, they will probably take the matter to court, you will be asked to plead guilty or not guilty, from what you have said you will be guilty, the court will then issue you with a fine. There will be a court record of this.

The default position is that they will be unlikely to believe you have done this by accident (even if you did) and that is not helped by you having done it on other occasions but not taken any practical steps to prevent you making the same mistake again (eg keeping the oyster card separate form your brothers, putting it in a different coloured wallet, writing your name on the wallet etc etc - lets face it, those would have been easy things you could have done).

If it helps I do come from a working class poorer background where my father has received child benefits and i'm eligible to receive financial bursaries from my university.

If it goes to court, the court takes your income into account when setting the fine IIRC

I also took a video and picture of me and my brothers identical oyster wallets as soon as I got home in case thats of any use.

It won't I'm afraid, it will only show that you took no steps to avoid getting muddled up about whose card was whose. I doubt it would even help if your brother took your card every now and again by mistake and paid too much....

1) Could you just outline the process ie. this letter comes first after do this.... and What would the best course of action be to avoid criminal conviction as I plan to become an auditor

When you get the letter, head back here for advice on how to reply and what to say - but TfL take misuse of Oyster Cards seriously, and generally seem to pursue the issue with court action so you need to recognise there is a distinct possibility of this.

Also, as you are student, you may be able to get some good advice from your student union or university welfare / advice service. It would be a good idea to find out about that now so go and ask about that, as when you get written to by TfL you will not have long to respond to them. You need to watch out for hard copy written posts to the address you gave them.

Hope this helps explain the process a bit for you. People here will be able to give you advice on how best to minimise the impact of what has happened / achieve the 'least worst' outcome from this.

 

[alholmes]

I’ll leave it to others to answer your specific questions, but given you’ve admitted that this has been a problem for many months, why haven’t you changed the wallet so that your cards are in different style wallets, and why do you continue to place them in the same box, where these mix-ups occur?

 

[RB1]

First question: did you travel from Waterloo (or W East) National Rail or from Waterloo tube station?
Both SWR and SE train companies are generally amenable to offering an out of court settlement if you engage with them, but TfL who run the tube are unlikely to do so as it is their policy to prosecute - however, they seem consistently to prosecute under the Byelaws and for a single offence only, so it is not likely to have too serious an effect on your career (provided you do not conceal your conviction if asked!).

However, you have admitted that you (may) have used the wrong card before - this might suggest you have (had) a casual approach to paying the correct fare. An obvious remedy might be to mark the wallets differently - better late than never!

You will have to wait for the letter, which may take some weeks, and will ask for your version of events. Come back to use when that happens and we can help.

I can confirm it was with TFL. I will let you know when the letter comes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2024 ==

I’ll leave it to others to answer your specific questions, but given you’ve admitted that this has been a problem for many months, why haven’t you changed the wallet so that your cards are in different style wallets, and why do you continue to place them in the same box, where these mix-ups occur?

In all honesty just a lack of care. Didn't really think of it to be a big deal which obviously it is. Now I have to face the consequences for this ignorance.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2024 ==

Welcome to the forum

Yes, I think you need some help understanding the process that will now happen. There are various threads on TfL misuse of Oyster cards that you can look over - this one may give you some outline idea. [EDIT - might be different if it was not TfL staff who stopped you as mentioned in post #2]

Caught using Student Oyster

Hi Hope everyone is well. I was travelling from Elm park to harringay green while travelling on Overground the ticket checker stopped me & checked that whether i have a valid ticket or not. It was a bad day for me as my wife gave me her student card for the top up which i was in hurry & i tapped...

www.railforums.co.uk

But it's not usually the case that TfL will issue you with a 'fine' and that will be the end of the matter. What the inspector was probably explaining was that you will get a letter, they will probably take the matter to court, you will be asked to plead guilty or not guilty, from what you have said you will be guilty, the court will then issue you with a fine. There will be a court record of this.

The default position is that they will be unlikely to believe you have done this by accident (even if you did) and that is not helped by you having done it on other occasions but not taken any practical steps to prevent you making the same mistake again (eg keeping the oyster card separate form your brothers, putting it in a different coloured wallet, writing your name on the wallet etc etc - lets face it, those would have been easy things you could have done).



If it goes to court, the court takes your income into account when setting the fine IIRC



It won't I'm afraid, it will only show that you took no steps to avoid getting muddled up about whose card was whose. I doubt it would even help if your brother took your card every now and again by mistake and paid too much....



When you get the letter, head back here for advice on how to reply and what to say - but TfL take misuse of Oyster Cards seriously, and generally seem to pursue the issue with court action so you need to recognise there is a distinct possibility of this.

Also, as you are student, you may be able to get some good advice from your student union or university welfare / advice service. It would be a good idea to find out about that now so go and ask about that, as when you get written to by TfL you will not have long to respond to them. You need to watch out for hard copy written posts to the address you gave them.

Hope this helps explain the process a bit for you. People here will be able to give you advice on how best to minimise the impact of what has happened / achieve the 'least worst' outcome from this.

Would you recommend me asking anything specific to my student union/welfare advisor? Also is it worth trying to get an out of court settlement with TFL in my letter. How would I go about doing this? Also if a byelaw could be clarified a bit more that would be helpful. Especially in terms of standard DBS checks and job aspects. From what ive read, it doesn't appear on your DBS or it gets taken off after a year. Of course still best to let employees know of it, better you tell them instead of them finding out but yeah.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I’ll leave it to others to answer your specific questions, but given you’ve admitted that this has been a problem for many months, why haven’t you changed the wallet so that your cards are in different style wallets, and why do you continue to place them in the same box, where these mix-ups occur?

Without wishing to be judgemental, the OP needs to recognise that TfL will ask themselves very similar questions. Having two very similar looking Oyster cards in the same place and identical wallets won't be accepted as the OP taking reasonable care to avoid confusion: there is at least a good chance that TfL will treat it as a feeble excuse that was made up to get out of trouble. <Edited to add> And if they decide one bit of your response is made up, they may think that the rest is made up too.

It's right to tell the truth, but if the truth is somehow unlikely then you will probably also need to explain WHY you were doing something unlikely like having the cards more or less identical<end edit>

 

[SuspectUsual]

To the OP - on the days when you mistakenly used your little brother's Oyster card, did he therefore use yours? If yes, it could look like a genuine error. If he didn't, you have to understand that TfL may well look at it as you deliberately taking his card on days you knew he didn't need it

 

[WesternLancer]

Would you recommend me asking anything specific to my student union/welfare advisor? Also is it worth trying to get an out of court settlement with TFL in my letter. How would I go about doing this? Also if a byelaw could be clarified a bit more that would be helpful. Especially in terms of standard DBS checks and job aspects. From what ive read, it doesn't appear on your DBS or it gets taken off after a year. Of course still best to let employees know of it, better you tell them instead of them finding out but yeah.

Ref the SU advice people etc - ask them things like:

- do they help students / members with this sort of problem?
- have they helped anyone before with this issue (a ticketing infringement with TfL and risk of being prosecuted for it)
- what practical help can they give?
- do they have any 'referral' arrangements with legal firms who will help students for free or reduced price should that be an avenue you wish to go down.

I bet they will have seen all this before, so see what they say.

DBS checks: Others will advise on this I'm sure - or see other threads involving TfL cases for what people post

Asking for out of court settlement - yes you should write and try and ask for that in reply to what they write to you. Again see other threads and regulars advice on the sort of content to include. Have a look for posts by Hadders for the content advised, but the general info given here is that out of court settlements are not the regular procedure for TfL but there can surely be no harm in asking.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello,
So I am 20 and a London student looking to get into Finance. I made my return to University today to do some exams. I accidentally took my little brothers Oyster (11-15) and used it for my journey from waterloo station. This has happened before because me and my little brothers oyster have the same wallet and are placed in the same box. I was running late for my university exam, rushed out and picked up my little brothers oyster up instead of my student oyster (as i said they are in the same box, within the same looking wallet). I got caught by inspectors and gave them the same story that Ive explained above. Gave my details ect... When mentioned how long have I been using the wrong oyster I said 5 months because as mentioned before I've made this mistake before, in reality it could be longer. I don't really really remember the first time I accidentally used my brothers oyster. It going to look bad because i've done it multiple times but yeah.

That's not a very convincing story is it? You accidentally took your brother's Oyster...many times - over five months you reckon. They aren't stupid and neither are we. Don't advance this defence.

The inspector then asked if I had any other means to pay for the train travel and I responded no and that was that.

This is an admission that you had no means to pay and hence provides the motive for you deliberately using a free 11-15 Oyster.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take misuse of Zip Oyster cards very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

As for what happens next TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL generally do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you plead guilty or are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[FenMan]

Was the Oyster (11-15) card confiscated when you were caught?

I can only assume your brother has no need of the card to get to and from school, as you've said you have been doing this for five months. So, it'd be a struggle to explain that your use of his card was accidental, as TfL will look at the journey history of the card and will draw their conclusions very quickly if the card has been used for weekday commutes beyond the local schools.

You say you're a student aiming to get into Finance. Well, given the how the Finance sector is regulated, this isn't a strong start, so I strongly recommend consulting your student union rep. who may be able to put you in touch with expert help to make the best of what, from what you've said, is not a good situation to get into.

.

 

[RB1]

That's not a very convincing story is it? You accidentally took your brother's Oyster...many times - over five months you reckon. They aren't stupid and neither are we. Don't advance this defence.


This is an admission that you had no means to pay and hence provides the motive for you deliberately using a free 11-15 Oyster.

Its not that I used it over 5 month straight. I use TFL from time to time but opt to try walk or cycle to wherever I need to go. For example, I haven't used TFL for a good month or so before this incident. Did not mean to cause any insult with my story. What other defence could I even advance in this case

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2024 ==

Was the Oyster (11-15) card confiscated when you were caught?

I can only assume your brother has no need of the card to get to and from school, as you've said you have been doing this for five months. So, it'd be a struggle to explain that your use of his card was accidental, as TfL will look at the journey history of the card and will draw their conclusions very quickly if the card has been used for weekday commutes beyond the local schools.

You say you're a student aiming to get into Finance. Well, given the how the Finance sector is regulated, this isn't a strong start, so I strongly recommend consulting your student union rep. who may be able to put you in touch with expert help to make the best of what, from what you've said, is not a good situation to get into.

.

My little brother has no use for the oyster basically. He very rarely uses it so doesn't know ive ever taken it. Its not that I used it over 5 month straight. I use TFL from time to time but opt to try walk or cycle to wherever I need to go. For example, I haven't used TFL for a good month or so before this incident. Yes the oyster card was confiscated. I was supposed to ask about that. Do they send the card back or something.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2024 ==

Ref the SU advice people etc - ask them things like:

- do they help students / members with this sort of problem?
- have they helped anyone before with this issue (a ticketing infringement with TfL and risk of being prosecuted for it)
- what practical help can they give?
- do they have any 'referral' arrangements with legal firms who will help students for free or reduced price should that be an avenue you wish to go down.

I bet they will have seen all this before, so see what they say.

DBS checks: Others will advise on this I'm sure - or see other threads involving TfL cases for what people post

Asking for out of court settlement - yes you should write and try and ask for that in reply to what they write to you. Again see other threads and regulars advice on the sort of content to include. Have a look for posts by Hadders for the content advised, but the general info given here is that out of court settlements are not the regular procedure for TfL but there can surely be no harm in asking.

Thank you. Also I have enough funds for some sort of legal help or solicitor if that will give me a higher chance of not being convicted.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2024 ==

Hello guys. I have received the verification letter. Just a quick one, this case isn't in relation to a ticket irregularity so I wouldn't need to send a copy of my photocard/oyster right? On the letter it say to 1. deny committing an offence. 2. accept committing an offence. 3. in relation to a ticket irregularity....send a photocopy of your card with your reply. Here is the email I intend to send back to TFL.

To whom this may concern,

I am deeply sorry for my carelessness and understand the severity of my actions on the 10th of January 2024. On the day I was in a rush to attend a university exam and picked up my little brother's oyster wallet instead of mine as we have the same oyster wallet and keep them in the same box. I took evidence of this as soon as I got back home on the same day of the incident (see attached). However, I fully understand that this mistake does not justify my actions. Since then, I have felt a great deal of anxiety and have been consumed with regret. I come from a hardworking family who have raised me with morals and values which go against such action. I am the first in my family to be in such trouble and I have brought shame upon them. Informing them of the situation was humiliating. Especially, in front of my younger brother who looks up to me. I have had restless nights and have struggled to communicate with my family as I feel like an outcast.

Additionally, I am looking to become an auditor in the future and have already taken the steps to become one by securing a summer internship (see attached). If this case was to proceed, it would ruin any chance of me becoming one since the financial sector is highly regulated requiring standard/enhanced DBS checks to ensure employees have no convictions. I hope you can take into account that this would destroy all the ambitions I have been working hard towards for years and leave me struggling further on in the future as I look to pay off university debt. The internship is the only good news I’ve delivered to my family recently. My father is on benefits and works tirelessly to provide for me and my siblings. I hope to repay him so it would haunt me forever if a careless mistake was to destroy my future career prospects.

Even though I come from a disadvantaged background, I would not intentionally do this due to financial reasons since I’m doing well enough to pay for full travel expenses through university bursaries (see attached) and effective budgeting. Also since my older brother has been working for a while, it has made more money available from my parents if I am ever in need. Lastly, I don’t travel often and if I ever do I prefer to walk or cycle. Both being cheaper alternatives if I was ever tight on money.

I will ensure to never experience this again by being more careful, diligent and responsible. I have been working with my university who have consulted me and given me advice on how to deal with the mental toll I have burdened myself with. I will continue working with them after the case. I have researched the costs TFL face due to such behaviour and have further familiarised myself with TFL policies/regulations as a step to avoid any future trouble. I accept I have committed an offence and realise the harmful impact I have had on TFL. I am more than willing to pay whatever costs are deemed necessary. I am a member of the public like anyone else and know I am obliged to abide to TFL’s policies/regulations. I understand anyone who thinks otherwise would be going against public interest. Although this is one of the hardest moments of my life, I believe it has been a necessary lesson. I realise I am no longer a teenager and I need to take full responsibility for myself as a young adult.

Again, I have never gotten in trouble with TFL or any authority before. I am willing to pay any amount of costs/charges deemed necessary to compensate for my actions and I am willing to accept any warnings issued. I have already taken actions to ensure this doesn’t happen again and will continue working with my university to educate myself on such matters. I hope you can see that this was a genuine mistake that will never occur again and I hope we can reach a conclusion which fully compensates TFL and the people involved without any further prosecution.





Thank you for taking the time to review my response.