Oxford to Cowley (THA) branch re-opening

[Snapper37]

I think Wheatley tunnel was originally broad gauge, so loading gauge should not be a problem. Castle’s were regular visitors in steam days. Re the catchment area of the Cowley extension, would not a fair proportion of journeys be to destinations beyond Oxford? Ie Chiltern to London.

 

[The Planner]

I think Wheatley tunnel was originally broad gauge, so loading gauge should not be a problem. Castle’s were regular visitors in steam days. Re the catchment area of the Cowley extension, would not a fair proportion of journeys be to destinations beyond Oxford? Ie Chiltern to London.

It won't be going any further than BMW at Cowley.

 

[BlueLeanie]

It won't be going any further than BMW at Cowley.

There's always wishful thinking!

I'm sure the staff at the big hospitals in Headington would very much appreciate it if the line continued through BMW, then took a left turn and dived underground for a mere 4km with a station at the Churchill & Old Road, then at the John Radcliffe.

Sometimes delivering sustainable travel to the 50,000 people who'd visit Brookes campus, University campus and Hospital sites every day is more important than the cost.

 

[Benjwri]

There's always wishful thinking!

I'm sure the staff at the big hospitals in Headington would very much appreciate it if the line continued through BMW, then took a left turn and dived underground for a mere 4km with a station at the Churchill & Old Road, then at the John Radcliffe.

Sometimes delivering sustainable travel to the 50,000 people who'd visit Brookes campus, University campus and Hospital sites every day is more important than the cost.

3 underground stations plus 4km of underground tunnels and you're looking into the billions of pounds easily. Plus new rolling stock, and since you can't send diesel trains down that immediately eliminates through Chiltern services. Benefiting only 50,000 people that would produce an absolutely abysmal cost benefit score, and it would be much better to look at increasing transport provision through buses.

 

[The Planner]

There's always wishful thinking!

I'm sure the staff at the big hospitals in Headington would very much appreciate it if the line continued through BMW, then took a left turn and dived underground for a mere 4km with a station at the Churchill & Old Road, then at the John Radcliffe.

Sometimes delivering sustainable travel to the 50,000 people who'd visit Brookes campus, University campus and Hospital sites every day is more important than the cost.

The cost would probably build a new mega hospital next to the railway.

 

[JamesT]

The cost would probably build a new mega hospital next to the railway.

What the John Radcliffe needs is a direct link to the ring road, so it no longer snarls up the local roads. I’m not sure how much of Northway existed when they started construction on the hospital, but it doesn’t look possible now without going through something someone would object to.

I’ve not seen proposed station designs for the Business Park, but I’m hoping it will provide a cycling/walking route through the railway line.

 

[ricoblade]

I have to go to Cowley every few weeks and it's a PITA how long it takes and costs to get taxis to/from Oxford station, bring this on please (though by the time it's built, I'll probably not be doing the journey anymore).

 

[Mark24]

Is there a proposed completion date for this?

 

[JamesT]

Is there a proposed completion date for this?

Completion? Hah! This is just more of the continuing work on building a case to reopen. There’s no actual funding for building anything yet.

 

[The Planner]

What the John Radcliffe needs is a direct link to the ring road, so it no longer snarls up the local roads. I’m not sure how much of Northway existed when they started construction on the hospital, but it doesn’t look possible now without going through something someone would object to.

I’ve not seen proposed station designs for the Business Park, but I’m hoping it will provide a cycling/walking route through the railway line.

Probably most of it. Google says between 72 and 79.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The bridge over the Thames on that branch will need a fair bit of work done to it for a re-opening; while it looks reasonably sound there's a lot of vegetation growing along the deck on it - full length of it. This is what it looked like in June last year. The roots can't be doing it much good?

 

[The Planner]

Copes with the car trains out of Cowley.

 

[Oxfordblues]

To path the additional trains would probably require reinstatement of the Up Relief line between Hinksey North and Hinksey South, probably impinging on Hinksey Lake and needing replacement of the two footbridges. I don't believe there would be capacity with the existing layout.

 

[fishwomp]

To path the additional trains would probably require reinstatement of the Up Relief line between Hinksey North and Hinksey South, probably impinging on Hinksey Lake and needing replacement of the two footbridges. I don't believe there would be capacity with the existing layout.

Or the existing lines can be slewed into Hinkey yard.. there's plenty of ways to do that - even though there's a stream between the sidings and the mainline.

 

[BlueLeanie]

I’ve not seen proposed station designs for the Business Park, but I’m hoping it will provide a cycling/walking route through the railway line.

Looking on Google Maps, there's already a pedestrian underpass through to Tesco/M&S from the Business Park. Oddly it sits on the old formation to the Morris Works on which the Business Park is built.

I have to go to Cowley every few weeks and it's a PITA how long it takes and costs to get taxis to/from Oxford station, bring this on please (though by the time it's built, I'll probably not be doing the journey anymore).

We did the Mini Experience. There's a non-stop bus from outside the Police Station (about 10 minute walk from the Railway Station) every 10 minutes to the BMW Gate/Tile Flair. That's just 5 mins walk from the Business Park.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2024 ==

Probably most of it. Google says between 72 and 79.

1922 According the OUH website.

In 1919 the Radcliffe Infirmary purchased the Manor House estate in Headington. The Infirmary site was already overcrowded, and they had been asked to provide sanatorium accommodation for tuberculosis sufferers. They had applied to the Radcliffe Trustees for the use of some of the Observatory land, but without success. A public appeal for funds was launched, and much of the purchase price came from the British Red Cross as part of the winding up of monies raised during the First World War; it was proposed that the new hospital should serve as a war memorial.

Roads and drainage for a tuberculosis hospital were laid, but financial difficulties intervened. In the event, the first hospital use of the site was when the Preliminary Training School of the newly established School of Nursing took up residence in the Manor House in 1922. The Ministry of Health finally approved the plans for the hospital for tuberculosis cases, and the Osler Pavilion opened in 1927, named after Sir William Osler (1849 - 1919), Regius Professor of Medicine.

History of the John Radcliffe Hospital - Oxford University Hospitals

Oxford University Hospitals: John Radcliffe Hospital history from the purchase of the Manor House estate in 1919 to present day.

www.ouh.nhs.uk

 

[Falcon1200]

The cost would probably build a new mega hospital next to the railway.

Which is where the JR should have been built in the first place! Next to the railway and the ring road.

What the John Radcliffe needs is a direct link to the ring road, so it no longer snarls up the local roads. I’m not sure how much of Northway existed when they started construction on the hospital, but it doesn’t look possible now without going through something someone would object to.

My family moved to Oxford in 1964, to a then quiet dead end road. Northway existed then, and whatever medical facility was in Headington was a tiny fraction of what the JR has become, a major teaching hospital serving a huge area (an uncle of my wife was treated there for his heart condition - He lived in eastern Northamptonshire....). My parents house is now on one of the major routes to the JR, traffic is non-stop.

Ironically there is now access across the Northern Bypass from quite near the JR, however this is for traffic crossing the bypass to and from Barton, not for access on and off the bypass itself.

 

[JamesT]

Looking on Google Maps, there's already a pedestrian underpass through to Tesco/M&S from the Business Park. Oddly it sits on the old formation to the Morris Works on which the Business Park is built.

Yes, there’s an underpass under the ring road. But to get from Blackbird Leys to Tesco, it’s either the bridge carrying Blackbird Leys Road or the underpass with Watlington Road.

 

[The Planner]

Looking on Google Maps, there's already a pedestrian underpass through to Tesco/M&S from the Business Park. Oddly it sits on the old formation to the Morris Works on which the Business Park is built.



We did the Mini Experience. There's a non-stop bus from outside the Police Station (about 10 minute walk from the Railway Station) every 10 minutes to the BMW Gate/Tile Flair. That's just 5 mins walk from the Business Park.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2024 ==


1922 According the OUH website.

History of the John Radcliffe Hospital - Oxford University Hospitals

Oxford University Hospitals: John Radcliffe Hospital history from the purchase of the Manor House estate in 1919 to present day.

www.ouh.nhs.uk

Different hospital. The infirmary was in the city centre, the John Radcliffe is different.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Different hospital. The infirmary was in the city centre, the John Radcliffe is different.

That's right.

As the article explains, the Radcliffe Infirmary (City Centre) bought the Manor Estate (Headington) in 1919. The first Tuberculosis patients were tended to at the Manor Estate site (what is now the John Radcliffe) in the 1920s.

 

[oxfordrelayer]

A video I took on the Cowley branch line- Sideways !!! with me droning on - apologies

 

[Doctor Fegg]

What the John Radcliffe needs is a direct link to the ring road, so it no longer snarls up the local roads. I’m not sure how much of Northway existed when they started construction on the hospital, but it doesn’t look possible now without going through something someone would object to.

It would have been near trivial a few years back, when Barton Park was under construction on the far side of the A40, to include a hospital Park & Ride as part of the development.

You could then run a regular (electric?) P&R shuttle bus across the A40 junction, through Northway, to the back entrance of the John Radcliffe.

There is literally no infrastructure needed apart from the P&R itself. Both junctions already have bus gates. But unfortunately Barton Park has been built without any provision for this and there's nowhere to put it unless you plough through the woodland area by Bayswater Brook. I guess you could potentially build a P&R at the Marsh Lane junction instead, but it seems like such a missed opportunity.

 

[JJmoogle]

A video I took on the Cowley branch line- Sideways !!! with me droning on - apologies

Thanks for that, I knew the branch was there of course but I wasn't expecting it to be in quite such a good state(for a freight branch) of repair, it really rather looks like this could probably happen.

What, if any actual major work would need doing aside from constructing stations(presumably some additional signaling?
I must admit despite having been through too many times to count I have never really got my head around the layout of the railway south of Oxford station, would it require any new trackwork for capacity reasons?

 

[Mark24]

Great video. Thanks for posting.
Has this section always been single track? It certainly looks that way from the existing bridges and tunnels. It just seems surprising as this line once reached Princes Risborough.

 

[Falcon1200]

Yes, the route from Kennington Jc to Princes Risborough was single track, with passing loops at various locations.

 

[Kingham West]

The journey to Oxford station from east Oxford by rail may only take 10 minutes, but is a half-hourly frequency really going to be attractive relative to a bus, especially for people going to the city centre which is still a bit of a walk from the station? Still wondering if this is a solution looking for a problem, but given the scheme has clearly got through the preliminary business case stages someone must have been convinced that rail solves the problem in question and the financial side of the business case stacks up relative to spending money on alternative transport schemes.

The bus is 40 mins from Cowley to station, and they get caught up in traffic.
This is a scheme pushing at an open door

 

[ricoblade]

The bus is 40 mins from Cowley to station, and they get caught up in traffic.
This is a scheme pushing at an open door

Agreed - As I said up-thread, I've taxied it from the station to Cowley and back, which takes an age through all the traffic and is very expensive (work pays).

 

[The Planner]

The bus is 40 mins from Cowley to station, and they get caught up in traffic.
This is a scheme pushing at an open door

Fine, if you want to go to the station, except the station is no good for the city centre itself.

 

[Falcon1200]

Fine, if you want to go to the station, except the station is no good for the city centre itself.

Very true, and this is an issue for any new rail service planned, or thought of, to Oxford; The station is not well located for the city centre. The additional bus journey time, compared to rail, between say Cowley and Oxford may well be made irrelevant by the additional time needed to get from origin to starting station, and from Oxford station to actual destination. However I am fully in favour of trains to Cowley, but there have to be realistic expectations of demand.

 

[JJmoogle]

The distance from the station to the city centre is less than a tenth of the distance from the proposed cowley station to the city centre and given the amount of ever continuing public realm improvement over the past 20 odd years the walk(or bus, integrated transport would be ideal here) deeper into the city really no longer seems as long.
There's cities around with far worse main station siting.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

The station is absolutely fine for the city centre, as the hundreds of people getting off trains and walking there every day (including me, a few hours ago) will testify. It's under half a mile from the station to the Westgate. We're not exactly talking Cambridge here.