Translink and Iarnrod Eireann Fare Differences

[sk688]

Trying to book from Belfast to Dublin via Drogheda in a few weeks , and for some reason IE tickets from Belfast to Dublin are much cheaper than the ones on Translink's website , but the IE website makes you buy tickets from the Translink site , which is more expensive for the same journey ?

This is despite me having both a Translink ylink student card and the TFI Young Adult Leap card, the fares on the IE website for journeys south from Dublin are cheaper than Translink's yet you can only buy from Translink for some reason

In that case, why are the Translink fares set higher for what is effectively the same train journey operated by the same form of joint-operation.

 

[johnnydoe]

Ireland subsidises rail transport to a greater extent than Northern Ireland.

You can't book from the Northern Ireland side to Ireland via Irish Rail and vice versa via Translink.

I thinks there's a websaver fare available from the Translink website, but I don't know how that plays with student discounts.

 

[ainsworth74]

Translink just seems to be disappointingly poor when it comes to buying fares online for the Enterprise. The booking horizon is much shorter (only three/four weeks rather than 90(ish) days), the price is higher (okay that's more out of their hands to be fair!) and it doesn't appear you can pick your seat unlike when booking with Irish Rail.

 

[duesselmartin]

Could you not buy from IE using a VPN?

 

[johnnydoe]

Could you not buy from IE using a VPN?

No, it doesn't matter where you're based. You can only go from the Irish side to the Northern Irish side on Irish Rail via one way ticketing.

 

[rvdborgt]

No, it doesn't matter where you're based. You can only go from the Irish side to the Northern Irish side on Irish Rail via one way ticketing.

I'm quite sure that, within the EU, that's illegal. Not sure about how that's for the UK though.

 

[johnnydoe]

I'm quite sure that, within the EU, that's illegal. Not sure about how that's for the UK though.

Hardly. I've bought cheaper fares via DB compared to ÖBB for the exact same train.

 

[johncrossley]

Hardly. I've bought cheaper fares via DB compared to ÖBB for the exact same train.

Was the ticket available for purchase on both sites? If so, that's different to the situation being discussed where the ticket is only available from Translink.

 

[rvdborgt]

Was the ticket available for purchase on both sites? If so, that's different to the situation being discussed where the ticket is only available from Translink.

AFAIK neither DB nor ÖBB do geoblocking.

 

[ainsworth74]

AFAIK neither DB nor ÖBB do geoblocking.

I'm not sure that it's really geoblocking. If you try and buy a ticket on the Irish Rail site starting from Belfast it will direct you to the Translink site. If you try and buy a ticket starting from Dublin it will direct you to you the Irish Rail site. This will be the case no matter what part of the world you try and buy the tickets from. You are perfectly able to buy a ticket starting in Dublin from Irish Rail even if you have a UK IP address, or a ticket starting in Belfast from Translink with an Irish IP address. It's simply determined by the origin of the journey who you buy from rather than the location of the purchaser which is more what I would understand geoblocking to be.

 

[rvdborgt]

I'm not sure that it's really geoblocking. If you try and buy a ticket on the Irish Rail site starting from Belfast it will direct you to the Translink site. If you try and buy a ticket starting from Dublin it will direct you to you the Irish Rail site. This will be the case no matter what part of the world you try and buy the tickets from. You are perfectly able to buy a ticket starting in Dublin from Irish Rail even if you have a UK IP address, or a ticket starting in Belfast from Translink with an Irish IP address. It's simply determined by the origin of the journey who you buy from rather than the location of the purchaser which is more what I would understand geoblocking to be.

Aha. I must admit I didn't test this myself. Although I don't like such behaviour, it's probably not against any law.
I do wonder whether they do the same at their ticket offices, and whether they sell return tickets anywhere.

 

[johnnydoe]

You can buy return tickets from both operators. The journey must begin in the operator's country though. There's a websaver fare on Translinks website that is 12 GBP for Belfast to Dublin. Though I don't know what the student fare is. Student prices are 50% of adult fares on Irish Rail.

Irish Rail fares operate differently to most other European countries. There are three tiers for journeys of a certain distance on a given line.

Low fares. These can be cancelled or amended up to two days before with a loss of 50% fare value plus the fare difference for amendments.

Semi-flexible. These are the same as low fares but with 24 hours notice and a penalty of 20% value loss for changes/cancellation.

Flexible fares. These can changed up to 60 minutes and cancelled with no penalty.

There's no dynamic pricing. Prices are fixed though Irish Rail can alter promotional low cost fares at their discretion without needing approval from the National Transport Authority. The NTA dictate flexible fares.

For day-return journeys, where's there's no low or semi flexible fare (flexible only) you're better off getting a day return ticket from the machine in my opinion. There's no difference in online prices and you can take whatever train you'd like with break of journey acceptable too.

The downside though is you'll have no seat reservation.

 

[dubscottie]

You are unable to buy a ticket for a journey starting in NI on the Irishrail site because there is no way for you to collect your ticket at the station.

 

[rvdborgt]

You are unable to buy a ticket for a journey starting in NI on the Irishrail site because there is no way for you to collect your ticket at the station.

Irishrail don't have e-tickets?

 

[johnnydoe]

Irishrail don't have e-tickets?

QR tickets are available for low and semi-flexible fares, but you still can't buy any online ticket for journeys beginning in Northern Ireland on Irish Rail's website.

 

[superalbs]

AFAIK neither DB nor ÖBB do geoblocking.

Both PKPIC and SJ have done geoblocking at least once in the past few years.

 

[rvdborgt]

Both PKPIC and SJ have done geoblocking at least once in the past few years.

They may well have done (SNCF too), so please report them to the national enforcement body if you find evidence of that.

 

[ainsworth74]

It would seem the BBC have picked up on the issue of fares from Irish Rail being much cheaper than those from Translink:

Rail passengers travelling on the Enterprise rail service from Belfast to Dublin can be paying more than double what passengers going in the other direction pay.

In fact, it can be cheaper to travel first class from Dublin's Connolly station to Belfast than it is to travel standard class from Belfast to Connolly.

The Enterprise service is jointly run by Translink and Irish Rail.

However, depending on which side of the Irish border you buy your ticket, it will determine how much you will have to pay, and the differences can be vast.

Enterprise passengers from Belfast to Dublin can pay double

The cost of a train ticket depends on which side of the border you buy a fare.

www.bbc.com

I suspect that it won't be an easy issue to resolve however as it's mostly, by my understanding, due to differing levels of subsidy rather than a particular policy. And indeed Translink point out that Ireland has discounted public transport by 20% which applies to Enterprise fares. Though I note that often Irish Rail fares are far more than 20% cheaper!

 

[berneyarms]

It would seem the BBC have picked up on the issue of fares from Irish Rail being much cheaper than those from Translink:

Enterprise passengers from Belfast to Dublin can pay double

The cost of a train ticket depends on which side of the border you buy a fare.

www.bbc.com

I suspect that it won't be an easy issue to resolve however as it's mostly, by my understanding, due to differing levels of subsidy rather than a particular policy. And indeed Translink point out that Ireland has discounted public transport by 20% which applies to Enterprise fares. Though I note that often Irish Rail fares are far more than 20% cheaper!

The booking office / TVM single fare from Dublin to Belfast is EUR 30.40, down 20% from EUR 38.00 due to the Irish government’s progressive policies on public transport fares.

Irish Rail’s web fares are sold at a further promotional discount on the booking office fare, but they have discounted them even further at the moment.

 

[30907]

Hardly. I've bought cheaper fares via DB compared to ÖBB for the exact same train.

Were they exactly the same ticket? OeBB Sparschiene and DB Sparpreis have different conditions and both are available on (some) international journeys, similarly with CD First Minute and either of those. While DB and SNCF have separate contingents for their joint venture...

 

[Wakeful]

You can buy return tickets from both operators. The journey must begin in the operator's country though. There's a websaver fare on Translinks website that is 12 GBP for Belfast to Dublin. Though I don't know what the student fare is. Student prices are 50% of adult fares on Irish Rail.

Irish Rail fares operate differently to most other European countries. There are three tiers for journeys of a certain distance on a given line.

Low fares. These can be cancelled or amended up to two days before with a loss of 50% fare value plus the fare difference for amendments.

Semi-flexible. These are the same as low fares but with 24 hours notice and a penalty of 20% value loss for changes/cancellation.

Flexible fares. These can changed up to 60 minutes and cancelled with no penalty.

There's no dynamic pricing. Prices are fixed though Irish Rail can alter promotional low cost fares at their discretion without needing approval from the National Transport Authority. The NTA dictate flexible fares.

For day-return journeys, where's there's no low or semi flexible fare (flexible only) you're better off getting a day return ticket from the machine in my opinion. There's no difference in online prices and you can take whatever train you'd like with break of journey acceptable too.

The downside though is you'll have no seat reservation.

Translink student fare (yLink/24+ Student/Leap Student) is 50% of the walkup/on-the-day fare and priced at £17 so the web fare is still better value for them, especially on off-peak trains when it is £11.99 or something.

All NIR student (yLink/24+ Student) fares are 1/2 of Adult Peak fares regardless of whatever time departure is.

 

[stadler]

The other ridiculous thing about Enterprise fares is that if you purchase a ticket onboard Enterprise the price differs depending on whether your train is staffed by Irish Rail staff or Translink staff. Out of the three diagrams one is staffed by Irish Rail staff and two are staffed by Translink staff. So even if you are travelling in the same direction and between the same stations the price will differ depending on which staff are working your train. It is only a small difference but it is ridiculous that the price differs depending on who staffs the train. Considering it is a joint service it does not seem very joined up. Most other cross border joint services in Mainland European seem to be run better when it comes to ticketing.

 

[berneyarms]

The other ridiculous thing about Enterprise fares is that if you purchase a ticket onboard Enterprise the price differs depending on whether your train is staffed by Irish Rail staff or Translink staff. Out of the three diagrams one is staffed by Irish Rail staff and two are staffed by Translink staff. So even if you are travelling in the same direction and between the same stations the price will differ depending on which staff are working your train. It is only a small difference but it is ridiculous that the price differs depending on who staffs the train. Considering it is a joint service it does not seem very joined up. Most other cross border joint services in Mainland European seem to be run better when it comes to ticketing.

To the best of my knowledge, Iarnród Éireann staff don't sell tickets on board the Enterprise.

 

[Bungle965]

To the best of my knowledge, Iarnród Éireann staff don't sell tickets on board the Enterprise.

How do staff deal with customers who need to purchase their tickets and the ticket office for instance isn’t open at their departing station?

 

[stadler]

To the best of my knowledge, Iarnród Éireann staff don't sell tickets on board the Enterprise.

How do staff deal with customers who need to purchase their tickets and the ticket office for instance isn’t open at their departing station?

They do sell tickets onboard all Enterprise services. I have bought tickets onboard Irish Rail operated trains so they definitely do. They sell tickets for both international journeys and can even sell tickets for domestic journeys in both countries.

However on the Irish Rail operated Enterprise services they have both a Guard (who is non commercial and does not check or sell tickets) and a Customer Service Officer (who checks and sells tickets) so the Guard does not check or sell tickets. This is a fairly new arrangement as the Customer Service Officer role was only fairly recently introduced. In the past on the Irish Rail services they only had a Guard (and this is still the case sometimes when a Customer Service Officer is unavailable) so you are right that in the past there was no ticket sales onboard.

On the Translink operated Enterprise services they only have one Guard (called a Conductor or Train Manager depending on the staff) who is commercial and checks and sells tickets. So on the Translink services they have always done ticketing onboard. They have done tickets on their Enterprise trains from day one.

So you used to have the odd situation where on Irish Rail operated Enterprise services there were zero ticket checks or ticket sales but on Translink operated Enterprise services there were always ticket checks and you could buy a ticket onboard. This has now been corrected and you can buy tickets on Irish Rail services too as long as a CSO is onboard. However we do have the ridiculous situation where Irish Rail operated trains and Translink operated trains charge different prices for the same journeys.

 

[The exile]

Aha. I must admit I didn't test this myself. Although I don't like such behaviour, it's probably not against any law.
I do wonder whether they do the same at their ticket offices, and whether they sell return tickets anywhere.

Is it any different from single fares in GB where the “to London” direction is always more expensive than going the other way. Stansted Airport to Bishops Stortford is about £2 more than the other direction that’s about 40%}?

 

[Watershed]

in GB where the “to London” direction is always more expensive than going the other way

It's not "always" more expensive, though. Indeed, in some notable cases it's more expensive to travel from London than to it, leading to the perhaps surprising outcome where for some journeys it's cheaper to buy a return ticket and throw away the outward portion.

 

[The exile]

It's not "always" more expensive, though. Indeed, in some notable cases it's more expensive to travel from London than to it, leading to the perhaps surprising outcome where for some journeys it's cheaper to buy a return ticket and throw away the outward portion.

Tbh, I don’t know why I wrote “always” since I know that’s not the case…. Point still applies, though.

 

[berneyarms]

How do staff deal with customers who need to purchase their tickets and the ticket office for instance isn’t open at their departing station?

I doubt that either all the ticket machines will be down or the booking office closed at Dublin Connolly, Drogheda or Dundalk in advance of an Enterprise departure.

 

[dubscottie]

The other issue with prices on the Enterprise is VAT/Currency. If you buy a can of Coke onboard while the train is in the ROI, you pay the NI rate of VAT as that is where the company is based.
Also people need to remember that the Euro/GBP exchange rate can change. One company would need to change its fares daily for them to both be the same which would be a ridiculous thing to expect.
I can recall about 15-20 years ago, the Belfast-Dublin/Dublin-Belfast fare was fixed at about £30/€50 return which roughly inline with the exchange rate at the time.