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I'm in the minority position of tending to think reservations should be honoured regardless of whether or not the display is working, and if that means passengers who haven't reserved have to move then so be it. Moving when I haven't taken the trouble to reserve a seat is less of a bother than finding no seat available where I've specifically chosen to make a reservation.
I'm in the minority position of tending to think reservations should be honoured regardless of whether or not the display is working, and if that means passengers who haven't reserved have to move then so be it.
And how the hell is that supposed to work, especially on say XC services, which are a nightmare when busy anyway? You seriously can't expect half the train to play musical bloody chairs?
And what if the rest of the train is full when the person with a reserved seat arrives? Are we to be penalized for not guessing the right seat to sit in?
I fear some people just get too entitled because they have a nominal suggestion of a seat. I often think the best policy would be to claim a refund for the reservation fee when the reserved seat is not provided.
What about situations where the reservation screens aren't working (or aren't turned on), or where the person with the reservation doesn't turn up until the next stop?
And how the hell is that supposed to work, especially on say XC services which are a nightmare when busy anyway? You seriously can't expect half the train to play musical bloody chairs?
Because it is very reasonable for, say, a family with children, to need to sit together and have booked tickets with the expectation that those seats together would be available. What's the alternative, that they stand struggling with children for the whole journey whist some people travelling alone sit in their seats?
Because it is very reasonable for, say, a family with children, to need to sit together and have booked tickets with the expectation that those seats together would be available. What's the alternative, that they stand struggling with children for the whole journey whist some people travelling alone sit in their seats?
I would absolutely say it is not reasonable that someone could be turfed out of the seat they are in that was not marked as reserved, to sit in another seat that isn't marked as reserved, only to be turfed out of that seat, to sit in another seat that isn't marked as reserved, only to be turfed out of that seat etc etc. Are you seriously expecting that person to potentially have to sit in every single seat in a carriage and get turfed out of them all?
Multiply that by the percentage of passengers who don't reserve seats and the result is utter chaos, delays to boarding, longer dwell times and passengers who are not just inconvenienced once on the journey (as would be the case with a passenger who had a reservation that wasn't fulfilled) but who are inconvenienced multiple times during their journey as they have to play musical chairs.
I'm in the minority position of tending to think reservations should be honoured regardless of whether or not the display is working, and if that means passengers who haven't reserved have to move then so be it. Moving when I haven't taken the trouble to reserve a seat is less of a bother than finding no seat available where I've specifically chosen to make a reservation.
I don’t quite get that. Surely if there’s a conflict over a seat then it is just as much bother for either party to have to move? It’s also worth remembering that the passenger without the reservation may well (in fact almost certainly will) have paid considerably more for their ticket.
Because it is very reasonable for, say, a family with children, to need to sit together and have booked tickets with the expectation that those seats together would be available. What's the alternative, that they stand struggling with children for the whole journey whist some people travelling alone sit in their seats?
Where families are involved, I am sure that most people would be sympathetic.
Where I think there is no need to be sympathetic is where it is only adults who are claiming their "seats together", since they should be perfectly capable of being apart until such time as an opportunity to be together arises.
Even if passengers are re-routed onto that train due to disruption elsewhere or the cancellation of a previous train?
The other day I travelled from Yorkshire to London, boarding at the origin. There were no reservations. Many of the passengers had been displayed from other trains onto that train. Everyone got a seat.
Some people boarded at Grantham and initially tried to evict these people, but myself and other passengers pointed out there were no reservations, and to find a seat elsewhere.
Do you really think that the passengers who had been displaced onto that train should switch seats mid-journey, packing up all their stuff (and diverting any food they had ordered etc)?
Moving when I haven't taken the trouble to reserve a seat is less of a bother than finding no seat available where I've specifically chosen to make a reservation.
It's surely more bother for someone already seated to pack up all their stuff and move, than for someone joining mid-journey to find an alternative seat, isn't it?
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Sadly, some people do; I've been on XC trains which have not had an announcement stating there are no reservations and some people have treated the lack of such announcement to mean musical chairs has to be played at every single station. This tends to be instigated by people who are occasional travellers, rather than regular commuters.
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And what if the rest of the train is full when the person with a reserved seat arrives? Are we to be penalized for not guessing the right seat to sit in?
I fear some people just get too entitled because they have a nominal suggestion of a seat. I often think the best policy would be to claim a refund for the reservation fee when the reserved seat is not provided.
There is no reservation fee, but some compensation should be provided.
Indeed, LNER operate a scheme whereby if you reserved a seat and reservations are not in place, and you cannot find a suitable alternative, you do get compensated. This is much better than asking a passenger from Leeds to London to pack up their stuff at Grantham and try to find an alternative seat, as some people are erroneously suggesting should happen.
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Because it is very reasonable for, say, a family with children, to need to sit together and have booked tickets with the expectation that those seats together would be available.
What if the family is travelling on an unreserveable service but has booked far in advance, e.g. York to Blackpool? There cannot be a guarantee of seats being available but the reality is that most lone passengers will - in my experience - vacate tables, if asked nicely and in a non-entitled way, to enable families to sit together. In fact I've seen such passengers offer it without being asked on numerous occasions.
But with your proposal, people who are travelling a longer distance journey have to play musical chairs at intermediate stations!
Are you only proposing that invisible seat reservations apply to families, or to everyone? The former seems to be too complex an idea to implement, while the latter creates far more problems than the one example you provide (which isn't even the proper solution to that problem anyway)
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I agree, but I'd go further: it's more bother for someone already seated to move. On the train I'm on now, that could involve moving all my stuff, packing up my laptop and redirecting food I've ordered. I don't think people who come up with these ideas are regular passengers like me and you, who travel very frequently, but more occasional ones.
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I would absolutely say it is not reasonable that someone could be turfed out of the seat they are in that was not marked as reserved, to sit in another seat that isn't marked as reserved, only to be turfed out of that seat, to sit in another seat that isn't marked as reserved, only to be turfed out of that seat etc etc. Are you seriously expecting that person to potentially have to sit in every single seat in a carriage and get turfed out of them all?
Multiply that by the percentage of passengers who don't reserve seats and the result is utter chaos, delays to boarding, longer dwell times and passengers who are not just inconvenienced once on the journey (as would be the case with a passenger who had a reservation that wasn't fulfilled) but who are inconvenienced multiple times during their journey as they have to play musical chairs.
Because it is very reasonable for, say, a family with children, to need to sit together and have booked tickets with the expectation that those seats together would be available. What's the alternative, that they stand struggling with children for the whole journey whist some people travelling alone sit in their seats?
I wouldn't say they are entitled, but if I saw a family of four wanting a table, and no others available, and I was able to occupy a suitable seat elsewhere, I'd give it up to help them out.
But in no way does any argument over families justify proposals to enforce invisible reservations; it's a complete red herring, and families are probably more likely to be on unreserveable trains anyway.
Similarly, the example completely falls down if a family was displaced from a cancelled train, saw an 'available' table, and was subsequently booted out by other people. Perhaps the proposal was just to enforce invisible reservations for families only, but if so I don't see how this could be considered sensible, or practicable!
Leaving aside the other problems, it would dump a bunch of arguments on the train staff.
Especially with printed-at-home or phone tickets being the norm these days, it would be comically easy to falsify a reservation and not trivial to check its authenticity.
Surely it would be better to fix the problem at source, than invent impractical workarounds.
In a perfect world, train wouldn't be put in service with a dead system, in same way wouldn't be used if a door wouldn't close.
Some depots seem to have got too much into the gaffer tape culture rather than sourcing sufficient spares and fixing things properly, if patch something up, end up doing two repairs which is more time consuming than doing it once properly, as still got to do it properly anyway.
I realise in a disjointed railway some of it is weak maintenance contracts, really ought to be able to reject a part repaired train and tell them to fix it, or find a replacement, but penalties are set far too weakly, so get trains with non operating equipment in service
To me it is just about trying to do the best by people, and that means giving some thought to the needs of children.
It would also be true that those in most need of a seat (including hidden disabilities) be offered a seat out of kindness, especially where they lay claim to having reserved one.
However, I cannot see that general passengers should have any priority where reservations have failed to be provided by the TOC. Any claim is between the passenger with the reservation and the TOC.
In a "perfect world" the systems wouldn't fail in the first place. Without a reservation system that is 100% reliable, a policy that required a train with non-functional reservations to be taken out of service would be utter madness!
"We apologise that the 15:16 Acme Rail service to Crapston has been cancelled. This is due to the reservation screens being on the fritz and the risk of some people getting a bit mardy as a result."
A non-closing door is safety-critical, a lack of reservations is a minor annoyance.
No reservations displayed. Person A walks up to their reserved seat only to find person B already sat there. Person B says they reserved the seat but refuses to show Person A their reservation document/message. Now what?
No reservations displayed. Person A walks up to their reserved seat only to find person B already sat there. Person B says they reserved the seat but refuses to show Person A their reservation document/message. Now what?
I'm in the minority position of tending to think reservations should be honoured regardless of whether or not the display is working, and if that means passengers who haven't reserved have to move then so be it. Moving when I haven't taken the trouble to reserve a seat is less of a bother than finding no seat available where I've specifically chosen to make a reservation.
It’s a bad idea for all the reasons mentioned above.
I had this on an extremely busy GWR service a couple of years back where it was announced that there were no reservations due to a set swap. A woman boarded en route and proceeded to argue with someone in “her” seat, in a very self entitled manner. In the end I piped up and shut her down by telling her “it was announced earlier that there are no reserved seats on this train” and a stranger intervening seemed to do the trick!
It would be better if seat numbers were displayed on screen only so that, if reservations aren’t displayed, nobody can find “their” seat.
As others have said it should be the case that electronic reservation systems should be reliable. Perhaps if the train company had to do a full refund if your seat wasn’t available they would make more effort to get it correct.
To throw in my usual answer to this - there needs to be clear signage, visible from every seat, stating that if the reservations are not displayed they do not apply.
Some would still argue, but at least you've got a sign to tap which will deal with most people.
It really would not be hard to put a small sticker by the reservation displays.
Because the cause of such disputes isn't always just down to the displays not working (e.g. short formations / set swaps etc).
Especially in GWR land atm, you see a lot of short formations (9 car instead of 10, or 5 car instead of 9 or 10). In that scenario then it is physically impossible to honor reservations hence they aren't in place when that happens.
