Hi , I have a freedom pass D for under 60s I was travelling today and a train officer approached me after tapping out to see my oyster . He then asked to see the pass . I do not really like interacting with people as I have anxiety. I was in a rush to work as I was already late . I said I can’t stop as I am late to work . He then grabbed me and tried to pin me down . I wanted to know if this is okay to do as I felt it was disgusting and disrespectful.
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Ticket officers powers
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RailUK Forums
Section 5.2 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 is the relevant legislation that empowers agents of the railway to detain a person.
Unfortunately, you will have to get over your anxiety when it comes to dealing with TfL revenue officers - as the gates are usually set to indicate that high value passes (such as yours) have been used. This means you can expect to be approached more frequently than a fare paying passenger.
Next time, simply show the pass, answer any questions honestly, and be on your way; the check takes less than 10 seconds if nothing untoward is found.
Unfortunately, you will have to get over your anxiety when it comes to dealing with TfL revenue officers - as the gates are usually set to indicate that high value passes (such as yours) have been used. This means you can expect to be approached more frequently than a fare paying passenger.
Next time, simply show the pass, answer any questions honestly, and be on your way; the check takes less than 10 seconds if nothing untoward is found.
Condition 3, taken from the Freedom Pass website:
As above, the way you acted would have been suspicious to an inspector. They would (fairly, in my opinion) have assumed that you may not actually be entitled to the pass.
I have a (different) high value pass and I can honestly say it takes 5-10 seconds maximum to just stop and show it to them. If I can see staff behind the barrier who I think are making inspections of these passes, I keep the pass and photocard open in my hand and the inspection is over in a matter of seconds, nothing more than a "can I see your pass", "thank you" takes place. I appreciate you may have anxiety but in this situation it is unfortunately a requirement that you must show your pass to staff who ask it. As above, it is a required condition of holding the pass that you show it to a member of staff who asks to see it.
If you do not feel able to do so, then perhaps paying for your travel going forward will be a better idea? Having a freedom pass, and getting checked more regularly than other travellers, is a small price to pay.
I'm sorry that this is not what you wanted to hear but I fully agree with the above posters.
As above, the way you acted would have been suspicious to an inspector. They would (fairly, in my opinion) have assumed that you may not actually be entitled to the pass.
I have a (different) high value pass and I can honestly say it takes 5-10 seconds maximum to just stop and show it to them. If I can see staff behind the barrier who I think are making inspections of these passes, I keep the pass and photocard open in my hand and the inspection is over in a matter of seconds, nothing more than a "can I see your pass", "thank you" takes place. I appreciate you may have anxiety but in this situation it is unfortunately a requirement that you must show your pass to staff who ask it. As above, it is a required condition of holding the pass that you show it to a member of staff who asks to see it.
If you do not feel able to do so, then perhaps paying for your travel going forward will be a better idea? Having a freedom pass, and getting checked more regularly than other travellers, is a small price to pay.
I'm sorry that this is not what you wanted to hear but I fully agree with the above posters.
All very true and l absolutely agree, as the new owner of an Over 60 Oyster, that ticket checks are both permitted and to be expected. BUT l seriously doubt that, despite the legislation quoted, TfL's policies permit what would otherwise legally be an assault particularly on a disabled person. Methinks that the staff member in question could rapidly be unemployed if a complaint is submitted.
Having said that if the OP continues to refuse perfectly valid ticket inspections l suspect that they run quite a high chance of losing their ticket.
Obviously providing that upon investigation, the complainants account of the event is substantiated. Most (all?) Tube stations have comprehensive CCTV systems which would have recorded this "encounter" which could provide evidence to the investigating officer.
Bungle158
Member
If you are alleging an assault, it would be wise not to post further on this aspect, but pursue a complaint.
Use of passes etc is subject to terms and conditions which require their presentation when asked by appropriate rail staff. It is surely not unduly onerous to co-operate with revenue checks.
Use of passes etc is subject to terms and conditions which require their presentation when asked by appropriate rail staff. It is surely not unduly onerous to co-operate with revenue checks.
Absolutely correct and you are spot on that l was guilty of taking the OP at face value.
No assault seems to me to have occurred.
Assault is defined as putting a person in fear that unlawful force or violence will be used imminently.
Railway officers are allowed by law to detain people, as Mawkie explained above. As such, the force used was lawful.
Thank you very much . I agree
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
They did grab me and lift me up dragging me to the wall you do not think that is assault
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
gray1404
Established Member
If you were grabbed, lifted up and dragged to the wall then I think you should call 101 or go on the police website to report this as a crime as it is very serious.
You will of course have to explain the circumstances, and TfL may choose to take action against you too, for not showing your pass when requested. The risk is that your complaint is dismissed as being reasonable force, if the evidence supports it, but you lose your pass as you have admitted not complying with the terms of having one.
Deafdoggie
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I think this is excellent advice. "Be careful what you wish for." If you suffer from anxiety then it's much, much better to simply comply with the rules rather than add complications.
Again, if you suffer from anxiety, I can only see problems in taking a complaint forward. There's nothing to gain (except, possibly, knowing you got someone the sack. And if you suffer from anxiety that'll likely make it worse) and a lot to lose. It will be extremely stressful, potentially cost money, and potentially cost you your pass. I can't see a positive for you.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
If your anxiety is so bad that the thought of showing a ticket causes you to have such a gross over-reaction, I would strongly suggest that you invest in a sunflower lanyard.
Deafdoggie
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If a ticket check causes that much anxiety I'd either get a car or a taxi!
In the original post you say he tried to pin you down. Yet in post 13 you respond by saying he did pin you down. Yet you got away, as you were not questioned. Did you fight back or did he just release you? It strikes me that there is quite a bit of ambiguity in the story, and I suspect the inspector’s version of events might be quite different. The only thing that is not in doubt is that you broke the law in your actions.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Oh
you are being dramatic people were talking were pulling him off me and I ran
Nobody here knows what really happened. All we have is your side of the story.
If you feel you were assaulted then make a complaint to TfL/the police. But - remember that if you make a complaint and it comes out that your views on what happened aren't entirely correct then it may backfire on you.
I'm not sure there's anything else that can usefully be said.
You keep on layering more and more detail as the thread goes on. It's difficult to discern what actually happened. On balance my advice echoes the others who say you run the risk of being prosecuted for failing to show your pass if you try to make an issue of the inspector's treatment of you.
Did you actually show the pass (in the end) when detained? Post #22 suggests you ran off. This will have raised suspicion and I assume that TFL can identify the pass that was used at the gateline and who it was issued to. It's difficult to predict if there will be any follow up or not - the only thing I think you can do for now is to use the pass in accordance with the conditions and this includes showing it to 'ticket checking staff' upon demand without hassle.
TheJester
Member
This is a little confusing. The OP tapped out using a high value freedom pass and then refused to show it when challenged.
That’s exactly what someone using someone elses pass without authorisation would have done (see previous posts on this forum ad nausium).
What exactly were the gateline staff meant to do?
That’s exactly what someone using someone elses pass without authorisation would have done (see previous posts on this forum ad nausium).
What exactly were the gateline staff meant to do?
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
If you were travelling to work, then I assume this is a station you use regularly (?)
If that is the case, don't be surprised if you are "pounced on" again, next time as the staff may be watching/monitoring you
As others have said, just show the pass when asked. I assume it belongs to you and not somebody else...?
If that is the case, don't be surprised if you are "pounced on" again, next time as the staff may be watching/monitoring you
As others have said, just show the pass when asked. I assume it belongs to you and not somebody else...?
RPI
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There's always two sides to a story, I was accused of "grabbing and assaulting" someone years ago for tapping on their shoulder.
If you feel you were genuinely assaulted then you need to report to the police.
If you feel you were genuinely assaulted then you need to report to the police.
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