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The housing crisis and ways to fix it?

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HSTEd

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We have plenty of universities already distributed across the country. They are major generators of economic activity, often in relatively deprived areas - Liverpool and Dundee for example.

It seems bizarre to actively seek to concentrate everything in the southeast of England. The trend may be irreversible, but that does not mean it should be deliberately encouraged.
The problem is that trying to build more housing in existing urban centres is probably impractical, at least for the kind of quantities needed (some estimates run as high as five million more homes).

The only way to win the political battle is to reduce the number of people who will be NIMBYs over the proposal to the point that they can be overcome. And building a University would be the key part in constructing a new urban area from scratch.

As to the South East of England, people have been moving in that direction for quite a while despite numerous attempts by various governments to stop it. At some point it might be worth considering whether the settlement plan that the UK had in 1948 remains suitable for the UK today.
 
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oldman

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The only way to win the political battle is to reduce the number of people who will be NIMBYs over the proposal to the point that they can be overcome. And building a University would be the key part in constructing a new urban area from scratch.
I assume the NIMBYs would object to the bullding of the university in the first place. And once they'd moved in, the professors would become the new NIMBYs!

The London-Oxbridge triangle is inevitably a centre for the development of research-led industry, and while it is a pity it is in the south-east, it is obviously a good thing for the country to have those industries. But we should nurture what we already have in the north of England and in Scotland rather than adding to the imbalance.

There is a need for more housing in the southeast of England, but not for new cities.
 

HSTEd

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I assume the NIMBYs would object to the bullding of the university in the first place. And once they'd moved in, the professors would become the new NIMBYs!
Well if the University is built at the same time as the rest of the city, it will be too late for the NIMBYs to stop city construction!
The city has to be assembled as fast as possible and outside the conventional local government associated planning system, because once normal local government is established the city will be strangled by NIMBYs in the same way as all other significant urban areas.

But we should nurture what we already have in the north of England and in Scotland rather than adding to the imbalance.
Are we nurturing, or are we bleeding away vast resources in a desperate attempt to preserve what existed in 1948?
Throughout history of civilisation, settlements have been created, grown, shrank and faded away.

If Old Sarum had existed in 1948 we would still be forcing people to live there by preventing replacement housing being built, despite it having no economic raison d'etre.
There is a need for more housing in the southeast of England, but not for new cities.
But the only way to get more housing is to build new cities.
The power of the NIMBY lobby is so entrenched that serious expansion is impossible, as seen with the Green Belt arguments etc.
 

Enthusiast

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And building a University would be the key part in constructing a new urban area from scratch.
Why on earth build any new universities? The country is overburdened with them and far too many people are attending them for no purpose and emerge with a useless degree and £30k in debt. If the function of the new universities is solely to attract students from overseas, all that is doing is adding to the very problem (lack of housing) that you are trying to solve.

Many of the suggestions in this thread are simply pie-in-the-sky. In most of the past twenty years 60% or more of the population growth has been attributable to immigration. There is no way this country will build the number of homes (and the associated necessary infrastructure) required to meet this demand and talks of "Super Milton Keynes" and similar are just pipe dreams. The country needs to develop an economic and social model that does not involve immigration on such a scale. The alternative is ever increasing demand on already inadequate housing stock.
 

HSTEd

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Many of the suggestions in this thread are simply pie-in-the-sky. In most of the past twenty years 60% or more of the population growth has been attributable to immigration. There is no way this country will build the number of homes (and the associated necessary infrastructure) required to meet this demand and talks of "Super Milton Keynes" and similar are just pipe dreams. The country needs to develop an economic and social model that does not involve immigration on such a scale. The alternative is ever increasing demand on already inadequate housing stock.
Even if all immigration stopped tomorrow, there would still be a shortage of many millions of housing units, by some estimates up to 15% of the entire housing stock.

At current construction rates there would still be a crippling housing shortage most of the way to 2100.
Building vast amounts of housing is not needed to deal with future immigration, it is needed to deal with the housing shortage now.
 

renegademaster

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Maybe, but is a home in an AONB going to be affordable? Or is it going to attract a silly price because of its location?
Even if it's not, it would free up a house somewhere else in a gentrified area

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Thing about the statistics being quoted in this thread about houses here being especially small, thats mostly because we're one of the few western European countries with most people living in houses (Netherlands and Belgium being the only ones like us), most Europeans live in apartments and cope fine with it
 
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DynamicSpirit

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Who of us today would say MK was a mistake, that it should be deconstructed and the houses recreated somewhere/ somewheres else- where?

MK does indeed appear to have been quite a success. But how many decades did it take from conception to housing its current 290K-ish people? We need masses of new housing NOW, not in several decades time. I realise that it's going to take a long time to build the quantity of houses we currently need, no matter where you build them, but I'd imagine trying to turn it into a huge new town, rather than building in whatever places across the country are suitable, is just going to add to the difficulties and time required to plan it all out.
 
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The Ham

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Many of the suggestions in this thread are simply pie-in-the-sky. In most of the past twenty years 60% or more of the population growth has been attributable to immigration. There is no way this country will build the number of homes (and the associated necessary infrastructure) required to meet this demand and talks of "Super Milton Keynes" and similar are just pipe dreams. The country needs to develop an economic and social model that does not involve immigration on such a scale. The alternative is ever increasing demand on already inadequate housing stock.

Whilst population size is a factor it's not the only one.

With zero immigration we'd see the number of working aged people (those aged 18-65) shrinking (something in the order of 600,000 over the next decade). With a rapidly increasing over 80 population, if anything we need more people of working age to support them.

Between 1971 and 2022 the average household has shrunk from 2.9 to 2.36, if the population was 66.7 million that alone would require an extra 5 million homes (or an average of 100,000 every year).

There's many factors for this shrinking in household size, but there being far fewer children is a factor. Although some of that could be down to the infants mortality rate shrinking by around 70% over that timeframe and so the need for a spare is less of an issue.

In fact, if it weren't due to immigration, then the number of children would have fallen much further and the outlook for the working age population would be looking far worse.

An aging population isn't helping the household size, as older people tend not to have children living with them. Also over time there's a fair chance that the household may shrink.

On top of this there's other choices which have an impact, for example getting divorced can result in smaller household sizes (not always, you can have a larger household), such factors could have had less of an impact on household sizes in the past (although that's certainly not suggesting that we should try and roll back the clock, just that there's choices which do have an impact).
 

DynamicSpirit

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Whilst population size is a factor it's not the only one.

But it is likely to be the main factor. As I pointed out in post #105, the % increase in the population over the last few decades is massively greater than the % decrease in household size.

By the way, another factor that isn't often mentioned may be that people today want bigger houses/more rooms for the same numbers of people: For example, siblings sharing bedrooms - which was once normal - would generally be seen as undesirable today. And 50 years ago, very few people would have needed a home-office room.
 

HSTEd

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MK does indeed appear to have been quite a success. But how many decades did it take from conception to housing its current 290K-ish people? We need masses of new housing NOW, not in several decades time. I realise that it's going to take a long time to build the quantity of houses we currently need, no matter where you build them, but I'd imagine trying to turn it into a huge new town, rather than building in whatever places across the country are suitable, is just going to add to the difficulties and time required to plan it all out.
The problem is that political factors make large numbers of small developments very difficult to achieve.

Meanwhile, whilst a new city might require a lot of design work, it can be laid out in a way to maximise efficiency. If you lay out a million housing units at once and the associated other facilities you can just adopt your textbook solutions with much less effort than trying to fit things in to existing spaces.

But most importantly, a new city has no overhang of brownfield stuff to work around and only has to win the political battle over a small portion of the national NIMBY lobby
 

nw1

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I will say that I do dislike the opinionated and one-sided term "NIMBY". IMO, its use has little concept of the appreciation of our countryside.

Countryside and nature is important, even though it's increasingly unfashionable to have this view in the 2020s, and its preservation needs to be part of any discussion. I'd like to see a sensitive, reasoned and rational discussion of the pros and cons of development in a given location rather than the use of disparaging and opinionated terms such as "NIMBY".

I'd like to see development concentrated in locations where there has already been some degradation of the countryside in the late 20th century. The Didcot area, for example, has featured a (recently closed) large power station since 1971. The North Kent coast has featured industry and power stations since the late 60s. Local to me, there is a case for extending the Hythe conurbation down to Calshot, another site of a former power station (which is partly happening) or up towards Totton (again industry is present) as long as the New Forest is untouched. But vast tracts of the south have been wide open unspoilt green space and these areas should be avoided if at all possible; I really don't like the idea of development in the Micheldever area, to take another local example.

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Even if it's not, it would free up a house somewhere else in a gentrified area

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Thing about the statistics being quoted in this thread about houses here being especially small, thats mostly because we're one of the few western European countries with most people living in houses (Netherlands and Belgium being the only ones like us), most Europeans live in apartments and cope fine with it

Do you want to free up houses in "gentrified" areas though? Again these will be relatively expensive. Don't you want all new development to be affordable? We surely need more flats or small houses in brownfield sites or on the edge of urban areas than anything else.

(For point of clarification I live in a flat and am generally quite happy with it, and any issues are to do with the timeliness of block maintenance than it being a flat per se).
 
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renegademaster

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I will say that I do dislike the opinionated and one-sided term "NIMBY". IMO, its use has little concept of the appreciation of our countryside.

Countryside and nature is important, even though it's increasingly unfashionable to have this view in the 2020s, and its preservation needs to be part of any discussion. I'd like to see a sensitive, reasoned and rational discussion of the pros and cons of the issue rather than the use of disparaging and opinionated terms such as "NIMBY".

I'd like to see development concentrated in locations where there has already been some degradation of the countryside in the late 20th century. The Didcot area, for example, has featured a (recently closed) large power station since 1971. The North Kent coast has featured industry and power stations since the late 60s. Local to me, there is a case for extending the Hythe conurbation down to Calshot, another site of a former power station (which is partly happening) or up towards Totton (again industry is present) as long as the New Forest is untouched. But vast tracts of the south have been wide open unspoilt green space and these areas should be avoided if at all possible; I really don't like the idea of development in the Micheldever area, to take another local example.

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Do you want to free up houses in "gentrified" areas though? Again these will be relatively expensive. Don't you want all new development to be affordable? We surely need more flats or small houses in brownfield sites or on the edge of urban areas than anything else.

(For point of clarification I live in a flat and am generally quite happy with it, and any issues are to do with the quality of maintenance than it being a flat per se).
Blocking non-affordable housing being built isnt going to affordable housing built, it's just going to get nothing built
 

renegademaster

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The North Kent coast has featured industry and power stations since the late 60s. Local to me, there is a case for extending the Hythe conurbation down to Calshot, another site of a former power station (
Having loads of past industrial development doesn't quite down nimbys, the Romney coast has hardly any development and likes to see itself as very exclusive, with the poshest part being in the shadow of the power plant. Plus half the time the ruins of industry end up becoming a nature reserve themselves (like former gravel/coal pits turning into wetlands), which means you can't build.

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Why not just build the affordable housing?
I would support that too, but running around, getting rich people housing blocked isn't going to get anyone to do that. Normally the people who do run the campaigns are just other wealthy people who want to shut the door behind them.

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In one blog post by a person who name has escaped me, a tactic that has worked to get hard to get through developments is through going heavy on local referendums, sidestepping groups who are often in the minority but because they shout the loudest councils think they are majority. Also their was one arrangement where locals where bribed with a precentage of the profits of the developers sales which brought people round.
 
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najaB

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The only way to win the political battle is to reduce the number of people who will be NIMBYs over the proposal to the point that they can be overcome. And building a University would be the key part in constructing a new urban area from scratch.
Thing is, universities need students. And students choose their university based on reputation - which a brand-new university won't have. The only way this could practically work is if the new university was a new campus for an existing institution: either as a satellite, or a lift and shift from somewhere else (good luck getting all the staff and faculty to move!)
 

renegademaster

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Most current housing developments seem to be sprawling estates of "Barratt Boxes" with large gardens and driveways. This is horribly space-inefficient and the houses themselves are rubbish as well. We would have as much of a shortage if we'd built more efficiently. Local councils need to start turning down planning applications for poor quality developments and actively planning high quality ones - by which I don't mean luxury - far from it - nor necessarily high-rise. There is definitely room for a sweet spot, making much better use of space than modern new-builds (and affording a higher quality of life for the occupants) without cramming people in.

Unfortunately, councils are somewhat toothless as long as ministers remain happy to override local planning decisions with a snap of their fingers (in accordance with the government's infuriating ideological opposition to control of anything being on a local scale) - and the big housebuilders know this.
Where are councils going to get the funds to build high density housing that aren't profitable currently on the market? Your plan, implemented with the current budgets of local authorities , just means nothing gets built because you don't like the current stock.
 

GusB

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There's no magical solution for fixing the housing crisis, but the first thing we should do is tackle existing properties that currently lie empty and bring them back into use. Whether they're derelict, or only used as holiday homes for a couple of months of the year, we need some kind of mechanism to force the owners to sell up - either use it or lose it. Derelict properties detract from their surroundings and have the added problem of attracting anti-social behaviour and tend to be a fire risk.

If the owners cannot be traced after a reasonable period of time, councils should have the power to use compulsory purchase, or even take custody of the property and rent it out until such time as contact is made.
 

The Ham

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But it is likely to be the main factor. As I pointed out in post #105, the % increase in the population over the last few decades is massively greater than the % decrease in household size.

By the way, another factor that isn't often mentioned may be that people today want bigger houses/more rooms for the same numbers of people: For example, siblings sharing bedrooms - which was once normal - would generally be seen as undesirable today. And 50 years ago, very few people would have needed a home-office room.

Whist immigration is the main factor, needing to build 100,000 homes a year makes it quite a noticeable amount of the 300,000 government target.

The one thing which is harder to split out is how much immigration has done to stabilise the size of households. If for instance, the number of households with 2+ children had fallen further than the current number due to the lack of immigration increasing the number of children being born here. Then it could well be that households sizes would have fallen further.

The other thing to highlight, the cost of home ownership for young people is high. If it was more in keeping with where it was 30 years ago then it's likely that household sizes would have been smaller still.

In 1971 there were 55.9 million people living in 19.27 million homes.

In 2022 there's 66.66 million people living in 28.25 million homes.

That's best part of 10 million extra homes over a 30 year window, which is broadly 333,000 homes a year, so even the government's target of 300,000 falls short of this average.

Based on the fact that the target hasn't been hit for the last decade, maybe for the next decade the target should be closer to 500,000 per year.

To meet that target a place with 10,000 people would need to build an average of 75 new homes every year for the next decade (750 homes).

However, that's going to be a hard sell (and rather tricky everywhere, for example Tower Hamlets), which is why it's you're aiming for 5 million in the next 10 years I can see the logic of building new towns (5 with half a million in each could be easier than a lot of smaller developments).

I would also suggest that you look to build fairly high density, but with lots of green spaces. Rather than trying to build suburban sprawl, with all the ineffectiveness which come with it.

If you do this in a new city, you'll be able to do it. A village with 5,000 people in, would end up with their 375 new homes taking up far more land than the same number of dwellings in the city.

What's needed is a way of stacking dwellings with decent outside private spaces. This may result in a couple of flats at ground level (with a garden) and then a town house and garden sitting on top of these flats.

In doing so you could cater for families in the town houses and retired people in the flats (rather than needing a bungalow). As the cost of land is much reduced for each property (say the equivalent of two bungalows and a town house in the space of a pair of semis), it's likely that the cost of the properties wouldn't need to increase for the extra build costs.

Infrastructure costs would reduce (shorter lengths of roads and drainage runs) as would the running costs of the homes (due to more shared walls and floors/ceilings).

You'd probably orientate the town house to overlook it's garden (nearest the street) and the "bungalows" and their gardens to face away from the street to minimise the amount of overlooking. As whilst they would mean "front" gardens for the family homes, they would be at first floor level (so no overlooking from the street) with a fence around (so no overlooking from first floor level and depending on the angles fairly limited overlooking from the second floor of the houses opposite). As such probably no worse than most people who live in a lot of houses in suburbs.
 

cactustwirly

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Whist immigration is the main factor, needing to build 100,000 homes a year makes it quite a noticeable amount of the 300,000 government target.

The one thing which is harder to split out is how much immigration has done to stabilise the size of households. If for instance, the number of households with 2+ children had fallen further than the current number due to the lack of immigration increasing the number of children being born here. Then it could well be that households sizes would have fallen further.

The other thing to highlight, the cost of home ownership for young people is high. If it was more in keeping with where it was 30 years ago then it's likely that household sizes would have been smaller still.

In 1971 there were 55.9 million people living in 19.27 million homes.

In 2022 there's 66.66 million people living in 28.25 million homes.

That's best part of 10 million extra homes over a 30 year window, which is broadly 333,000 homes a year, so even the government's target of 300,000 falls short of this average.

Based on the fact that the target hasn't been hit for the last decade, maybe for the next decade the target should be closer to 500,000 per year.

To meet that target a place with 10,000 people would need to build an average of 75 new homes every year for the next decade (750 homes).

However, that's going to be a hard sell (and rather tricky everywhere, for example Tower Hamlets), which is why it's you're aiming for 5 million in the next 10 years I can see the logic of building new towns (5 with half a million in each could be easier than a lot of smaller developments).

I would also suggest that you look to build fairly high density, but with lots of green spaces. Rather than trying to build suburban sprawl, with all the ineffectiveness which come with it.

If you do this in a new city, you'll be able to do it. A village with 5,000 people in, would end up with their 375 new homes taking up far more land than the same number of dwellings in the city.

What's needed is a way of stacking dwellings with decent outside private spaces. This may result in a couple of flats at ground level (with a garden) and then a town house and garden sitting on top of these flats.

In doing so you could cater for families in the town houses and retired people in the flats (rather than needing a bungalow). As the cost of land is much reduced for each property (say the equivalent of two bungalows and a town house in the space of a pair of semis), it's likely that the cost of the properties wouldn't need to increase for the extra build costs.

Infrastructure costs would reduce (shorter lengths of roads and drainage runs) as would the running costs of the homes (due to more shared walls and floors/ceilings).

You'd probably orientate the town house to overlook it's garden (nearest the street) and the "bungalows" and their gardens to face away from the street to minimise the amount of overlooking. As whilst they would mean "front" gardens for the family homes, they would be at first floor level (so no overlooking from the street) with a fence around (so no overlooking from first floor level and depending on the angles fairly limited overlooking from the second floor of the houses opposite). As such probably no worse than most people who live in a lot of houses in suburbs.
The problem with flats is that they are expensive, they are often sold as a premium development and come with very high service fees. It is cheaper to buy a 2 bedroom house.
 

Dr Day

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come with very high service fees
Slightly tangential, genuine question - how are common charges and other issues conspiring against flats here dealt with in other western European countries?

They are able to sustain far higher proportions of the population in apartments, across all household sizes and socio-economic groups, with consequential benefits including the ability to provide more cost effective public transport.
 

JamesT

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There's no magical solution for fixing the housing crisis, but the first thing we should do is tackle existing properties that currently lie empty and bring them back into use. Whether they're derelict, or only used as holiday homes for a couple of months of the year, we need some kind of mechanism to force the owners to sell up - either use it or lose it. Derelict properties detract from their surroundings and have the added problem of attracting anti-social behaviour and tend to be a fire risk.

If the owners cannot be traced after a reasonable period of time, councils should have the power to use compulsory purchase, or even take custody of the property and rent it out until such time as contact is made.
Councils have powers like that already - https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04129/
Chapter 2 of Part 4 of the Housing Act 2004 made provision for local authorities to take over management of certain residential premises that had been empty for at least six months by seeking an Empty Dwelling Management Order (EDMO). Residential Property Tribunals (now First-Tier Tribunals) gained the power to issue EDMOs on 6 July 2006.
(Though later notes it’s now a 2 year wait)

Are empty homes really the first thing to look at? https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...housinginenglandandwales/2021comparedwith2011
In 2021, there were 26.4 million dwellings in England and Wales, which has increased by 8.4% since 2011 (24.4 million dwellings). This breaks down to 24.9 million dwellings in England and 1.5 million dwellings in Wales, which have increased from 23.0 million and 1.4 million dwellings respectively in 2011.
I can’t seem to cut and paste from
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN03012/SN03012.pdf
but it states there were 248,149 long-term vacant properties in England as of October 2022.

So even if you could acquire all of those empty properties (and there may be good reasons why some of those have been empty for a while), that’s only 1% of the housing stock. It’s a drop in the ocean compared to the number of houses required.
 

takno

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Slightly tangential, genuine question - how are common charges and other issues conspiring against flats here dealt with in other western European countries?
I don't think sky-high service charges are even as predominant in the UK as is being suggested, but Scottish law has a pretty effective setup for dealing with freehold tenements, and I believe there are reasonable ways for leaseholders in blocks to buy the freehold and manage building insurance/repairs themselves. Other countries largely just don't have the leasehold thing at all.

Either way, leasehold and service charges aren't a feature of flats, they're just a neat little way for UK property developers to screw their customers over. If that's what's standing in the way then we just need to ban leaseholds and move to a more sensible legal model.
 

The Ham

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The problem with flats is that they are expensive, they are often sold as a premium development and come with very high service fees. It is cheaper to buy a 2 bedroom house.

Maybe a better description would be a maisonette, as there wouldn't be any communal areas. Therefore no service charges (other than public spaces - such as parks - which would be fairly limited in maintenance costs, if they weren't being taken care of by the City Council who if they were responsible would be pay for it from council taxes).
 

JamesT

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Maybe a better description would be a maisonette, as there wouldn't be any communal areas. Therefore no service charges (other than public spaces - such as parks - which would be fairly limited in maintenance costs, if they weren't being taken care of by the City Council who if they were responsible would be pay for it from council taxes).
Maisonettes definitely have service charges. I live in one, I’ve got the invoices.
The fabric of the building needs maintaining, including stairwells and walkways for the houses without ground floor entrances. My block was constructed of concrete, so I will shortly be getting a large bill as my share of the works to refurbish these. Unfortunately when the leases were set up there wasn’t a sinking fund setup, so it’s pay for works as they arise.
 

cactustwirly

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Maybe a better description would be a maisonette, as there wouldn't be any communal areas. Therefore no service charges (other than public spaces - such as parks - which would be fairly limited in maintenance costs, if they weren't being taken care of by the City Council who if they were responsible would be pay for it from council taxes).
Maisonettes are still leasehold
 

brad465

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While this won't solve things on its own, there should be measures looked at for discouraging ownership of multiple homes that sit vacant for most of the year, such as increasing/introducing taxes on second+ homes, and/or ones that are lot occupied for more than a set period of the year. Apparently Cornwall is a particularly bad part of the country for this due to many holiday homes/Air BNBs. Doing something about all the empty foreign property in London shouldn't go amiss either.
 

3141

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As GusB says in post #167, there is no magical answer. There are many individual answers, and if they were applied consistently according to which was most suitable for each circumstance, we might get somewhere.

One reason for our current problems is that we’ve made life much more complicated over the years. When my parents got married in 1937 they bought a new 3-bed semi backing onto the Piccadilly Line between Southgate and Oakwood, which had been extended four years previously. Huge numbers of such houses were built in the 1930s, and they met many people’s expectations then. More recently, aspirations are for a bigger house, detached if possible, because today people hope to provide their children with separate bedrooms, as one poster recently has pointed out.

I don’t know what the planning requirements were in the Borough of Southgate in 1937, but I’m sure they were far simpler than they are today. Nowadays a developer has to conform to numerous planning policies. In 1937 you could more or less just build houses across the fields. Today you have to take account of a large number of planning constraints and demonstrate that you have met their requirements. A development on a brownfield site is expected to clean up every last bit of contamination, however unlikely it may be, adding to the cost.

It may be the case that although inter-war house-building was much less regulated than it is today, much of it did take proper account of good practice, at least in the London area. Developers wanted the homes they built to be attractive to sellers and to acquire a positive reputation. There were plenty of alternative places to go and live in, withing easy reach of new transport links, if somebody was building duds.

Many modern developments are required to provide a play area, paid for, in effect, by the buyers of the houses. Just round the corner from my parents’ home was Oakwood Park, an estate bought as a public park a few years earlier by Southgate Council, vastly bigger than any play area today. Nowadays such a purchase would be unaffordable.

As a society we’d like our rivers to get less polluted rather than more, we’d like to preserve wildlife, and we want new homes to be well-insulated and produce the lowest possible level of emissions. We recognise the health benefits of walking to the shops or to the bus stop and railway station, as most people did back then because there was no practical alternative, but the design of today’s developments often doesn’t include local shops and public transport is much less abundant than it was eighty years ago. There is no longer an expectation that people will live within easy travelling distance of their employment.

I share nw1’s dislike of the term “NIMBY” and the way it is often used (post #161). Of course people who live somewhere pleasant and quiet will be unhappy about a proposal for a major development nearby, and why shouldn’t they say so? But, especially in a densely populated country such as England, providing a large number of new homes will cause a serious inconvenience to some people – somewhat similar to building HS2. We have to accept that there will be such problems in the interests of a much larger section of the population, and approach the issue maturely and as sympathetically as possible.

Whether we can simplify the processes of designing and getting planning approval for new homes is a question I cannot answer, but considering all the above factors, and many others touched on in this thread, I think that a focus on new towns or even new cities is the best way forward. Continually adding bits onto existing settlements does not easily provide the additional facilities that the additional houses need. In post #168 The Ham discussed the styles of building that might be most effective in making the best use of the land in a new city. Designing a large new settlement from scratch improves the chances of including all the facilities that ought to be there – though it’s worth pointing out that Milton Keynes was designed on the assumption that everyone would have a car, and making subsequent provision for bus services was difficult. I don’t know how to ensure that tomorrow’s new city doesn’t make the mistake of solving today’s problems instead of those of its own time.

Finally, I note posts that make generalised criticisms of new-build developments, and I’d like to state that I live in a house built in 2008 by a medium-sized developer who put a lot of thought into the layout of the estate and the appearance of the houses. Eleven out of 59 homes have four bedrooms, the rest being 3 beds and 2 beds, and 40% of the homes were designed for social housing. It can be done within all the modern constraints.
 

GCH100

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The problem of housing doesn't only effect the South East, since BBC moved parts of its empire to Salford with further bits to follow, and the expansion of Manchester economically generally, housing stock has diminished. Manchester once had a large stock of council housing but the Conservaties policies of allowing people to buy former Council houses of the 1980's means this stock is much diminished, especailly in more outlying area's such as Wigan and parts of South Manchester, indeed on one small estate of desireable Council Properties in Leigh, every single house on the estate has been bought by private buyers. The Leigh Guided Busway, has been a front to allow major property development on the fields around it, which has already started, over the next 40 years or so, these are generally going to be to relief Manchester, and are detached properties in the main.

In contrast in Ludlow, in Shropshire, any local planning permision for new dwelings now comes with a fee and a demand that money is put towards developments of local low cost homes for the poorer members of the local community who would be priced out, indead one such development has occured at Rocks Green on the outstirts of Ludlow next to the Ludlow Bypass, however it is poorly served by local buses.
 

Enthusiast

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Even if all immigration stopped tomorrow, there would still be a shortage of many millions of housing units, by some estimates up to 15% of the entire housing stock.
Which seems to somewhat reinforce my point. If the country cannot house those people already here (together with the natural increase brought about by that population) why on Earth should it countenance the influx of many more? Surely not for this reason:
With zero immigration we'd see the number of working aged people (those aged 18-65) shrinking (something in the order of 600,000 over the next decade). With a rapidly increasing over 80 population, if anything we need more people of working age to support them.
Because that's the very worst thing imaginable. It may be a good idea for politicians, for whom next week is the future, next month is the distant future and next year is (way) beyond the foreseeable future. But for the rest of us, it's simply kicking the can down a very long road only to encounter a far bigger can when you get there. This is simply because because the people brought in to support the older people here will eventually get old themselves. And then what? Somebody on here said something about them going back to Poland. I don't share their confidence.

Building vast amounts of housing is not needed to deal with future immigration, it is needed to deal with the housing shortage now.
I quite agree. But for various reasons that's not going to happen. So why is the government inviting hundreds of thousands of people to settle here every year, when they know there is nowhere suitable for them to live?
 

HSTEd

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I quite agree. But for various reasons that's not going to happen. So why is the government inviting hundreds of thousands of people to settle here every year, when they know there is nowhere suitable for them to live?
Well a cynic might suggest it is because British business has become addicted to an endless supply of cheap labour, and a decisive portion of the electorate finds the idea of expensive labour intolerable.

Additionally an even more cynical person might suggest that the people making the decisions don't really care about houses full of people living on bunk beds so long as it means they can get poor people to fawn over them at the coffee shop, on the train or elsewhere.
A labour constrained version of Britain would look very different to the British of today or the previous decades, and a lot of people really don't want the status quo to change.
 
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