Class 319 Northern departure

[50032]

No sign of any 319s out today. Looking increasingly likely that 22/12 was the final date of passenger workings.

 

[JulesOfOrange]

No sign of any 319s out today. Looking increasingly likely that 22/12 was the final date of passenger workings.

What's interesting is that after checking through RTT 30 minutes ago, no scrap runs were scheduled out of Allerton TMD for the next few days and no sign of 319369 returning to Allerton on a VST path either. This is just an assumption but Northern might keep their serviceable 319s in reserve until after the New Year and then send them all for scrap afterwards, so it might be worth keeping an eye out over the next few days.

 

[50032]

It might be worth reposting this from a few pages back:

Right then:

319378 & 319383 should depart on the 29th Nov.
319370 & 319381 on the 8th Dec.
319367 & 319379 on the 13th Dec.
319366 & 319372 on the 20th Dec.
319361 & 319368 on the 22nd Dec.
319369 & 319384 on the 4th Jan.
319385 & 319386 on the 9th Jan.

Dates/unit numbers are subject to change and cancellation, so don't shoot the messenger.

And then a look at what's actually run so far:

319375 on the 20th Nov.
319378 on the 29th Nov. 319383 didn't depart as planned.
319383 & 319384 on the 8th Dec. Left AN but brake problems at Edge Hill saw it caped and returned to AN.
319367 & 319384 on the 13th Dec.
319366 & 319383 on the 20th Dec.
319361 & 319370 on the 22nd Dec.
319385 & 319372 on the 4th Jan. I was recently given some gen that these units will be the next to leave.
319??? & 319386 on the 9th Jan.

That leaves 368, 369, 379 and 381 still requiring scrap moves, so it looks like an additional two will need to be scheduled in the new year.

 

[Jamesrob637]

So will there be an LNWR 319 scrap move this week?

 

[D7666]

What's interesting is that after checking through RTT 30 minutes ago, no scrap runs were scheduled out of Allerton TMD for the next few days and no sign of 319369 returning to Allerton on a VST path either. This is just an assumption but Northern might keep their serviceable 319s in reserve until after the New Year and then send them all for scrap afterwards, so it might be worth keeping an eye out over the next few days.

I'd apply Occam's Razor and go for something far simpler more at base level.

My suggestion is rather than conspiracy theory about holding units back, a reminder it is xmas week (i.e. between xmas and new year) and people take leave and or not do overtime and or rest day working (call it what you will) so maybe not enough personnel to do these moves. You only need one unresourced key function and the whole thing collapses.

I may be wrong of course. But no business I know of plans non essential jobs over xmas.

 

[JulesOfOrange]

I'd apply Occam's Razor and go for something far simpler more at base level.

My suggestion is rather than conspiracy theory about holding units back, a reminder it is xmas week (i.e. between xmas and new year) and people take leave and or not do overtime and or rest day working (call it what you will) so maybe not enough personnel to do these moves. You only need one unresourced key function and the whole thing collapses.

I may be wrong of course. But no business I know of plans non essential jobs over xmas.

I have to admit, I didn't think about that too well and I was probably being too optimistic, considering I'll be visiting Liverpool from Scotland for the next 4 days so I was hoping to get a last hurrah of 319 workings! And on another thread, it was mentioned that Sims have their hands full with the 319s sent last week so a scrap run is unlikely. Win some, lose some I suppose

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Dec 2023 ==

Just saw this now but this will probably be 319369 returning back to Allerton as 5Z85

Realtime Trains | 5Z85 0945 Springs Branch Stabl Sdg to Allerton Depot | 28/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z85 0945 departure from Springs Branch Stabl Sdg to Allerton Depot on 28/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

If that's the case, this might well be the last 319 working under its own power (unless you don't count the 769s of course!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Dec 2023 ==

5Z85 was 769450, saw it depart WGN

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Dec 2023 ==

319369 still at Springs Branch stabled behind a 331 with its pan down, probably just have to wait and see how things go

 

[Mamorin]

And on another thread, it was mentioned that Sims have their hands full with the 319s sent last week

Thats odd as Sims normally scrap trains with like a few hours of trains arriving. Wonder what is causing Sims to be a bit slow scrapping the 319s.

 

[507020]

Thats odd as Sims normally scrap trains with like a few hours of trains arriving. Wonder what is causing Sims to be a bit slow scrapping the 319s.

The quick succession with which they have been inundated with 319s and the 508s.

 

[adc82140]

Thats odd as Sims normally scrap trains with like a few hours of trains arriving. Wonder what is causing Sims to be a bit slow scrapping the 319s.

There will be various wider elements at play as well. Sims can scrap quickly, but if there's a pile of shredded bits mounting up, then they can't do any more. Due to the Red Sea issue, ships will not be where they were scheduled to be, for example.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Any 319s out since last Friday?

 

[Geeves]

There will be various wider elements at play as well. Sims can scrap quickly, but if there's a pile of shredded bits mounting up, then they can't do any more. Due to the Red Sea issue, ships will not be where they were scheduled to be, for example.

Strangely despite it being on the dockside on Facebook one of the pilots was saying it only has three or four boats out a year so the scrap must be leaving some other way. I would guess it's just the Christmas/ New Year / maintenance shut down.

No 319s out again today.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Strangely despite it being on the dockside on Facebook one of the pilots was saying it only has three or four boats out a year so the scrap must be leaving some other way. I would guess it's just the Christmas/ New Year / maintenance shut down.

No 319s out again today.

Less and less likely now that another 331/1 is on its way over.

 

[D9006]

commute To Manchester from Wigan on Thursday and Friday morning, noticed the peak flyers from Wigan NW to Man Vic. Was 331s on Thursday but Friday was all cancelled due to a last minute timetable change, these services were as seen in post above a good place to find a 319. But guess lack of patronage they got cancelled. Services from wallgate very slightly loaded(mean extremely quiet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2023 ==

I believe the 769s are leased until sometime in 2025. That is also when Lostock to Wigan electrification is scheduled to be complete, enabling EMUs to take over Stalybridge to Wigan services from the 769s.

Would need a timetable recast as the stalybridge services run through to Southport. Unless the Leeds service extends to Southport as was the original intention I believe when this service started

 

[darylyates17]

commute To Manchester from Wigan on Thursday and Friday morning, noticed the peak flyers from Wigan NW to Man Vic. Was 331s on Thursday but Friday was all cancelled due to a last minute timetable change, these services were as seen in post above a good place to find a 319. But guess lack of patronage they got cancelled. Services from wallgate very slightly loaded(mean extremely quiet.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2023 ==


Would need a timetable recast as the stalybridge services run through to Southport. Unless the Leeds service extends to Southport as was the original intention I believe when this service started

Thats probably what will happen they'll swap them with the Stalybridge services.

 

[david l]

Be a bigger recast needed as apparently the Leeds services will only run to Salford (presume Crescent?)

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Be a bigger recast needed as apparently the Leeds services will only run to Salford (presume Crescent?)

Can you expand on that (might be worth making it's own thread if this is something actually happening)? I'm not sure entirely what you're talking about, the Leeds - Wigan trains, as far as I'm aware, should be continuing through to Wigan for the foreseeable future.

 

[david l]

Can you expand on that (might be worth making it's own thread if this is something actually happening)? I'm not sure entirely what you're talking about, the Leeds - Wigan trains, as far as I'm aware, should be continuing through to Wigan for the foreseeable future.

Can't remember exactly where I saw it, possibly on some TfN or GMPTE papers but it was within the past few months and was something to do with services running through Manchester Vic (to Rochdale/Stalybridge east side or Salford Cres west side) as opposed to terminating there which was due to lack of capacity to handle terminators.
Something will have to be done anyway to the Stalybridge-Southports as electrification to Wigan NW will not really help the electric element unless the changeover is done at Hindley (don't stop at Ince) or on the move as no wires are going to Wigan Wallgate.

 

[Greybeard33]

Can you expand on that (might be worth making it's own thread if this is something actually happening)? I'm not sure entirely what you're talking about, the Leeds - Wigan trains, as far as I'm aware, should be continuing through to Wigan for the foreseeable future.

See

Manchester & North West Transformation Programme

Does anyone think the word "Transformation" in the project title will actually live up to its name?

www.railforums.co.uk

which would be a suitable thread to continue this discussion. The Manchester Task Force plan is for turnback sidings at Salford Central that will enable 2tph Leeds to Salford, 1tph via Bradford and 1tph via Brighouse.

This is the best write-up so far, giving details on the turnbacks and future service pattern. Most have been just a single talking point about the new platform, said three ways.

Sounds like it'll be 2tph Victoria-Bolton-Wigan and then 2tph Salford Central-Leeds (one via Brighouse, one via Bradford) - and alludes to the former likely going to Stalybridge in time, once wired? The Kirkby/Southports should then go to Rochdale, being diesel still.

 

[Mamorin]

GMPTE

GMPTE has not existed since 2011, I think your confusing GMPTE with its successor TFGM.

 

[py_megapixel]

GMPTE has not existed since 2011, I think your confusing GMPTE with its successor TFGM.

They are the same organisation with the same function, GMPTE is just an old name. TfGM was a rebranding of GMPTE to coincide with its incorporation into the Greater Manchester Combined Authority.

 

[Green tractor]

Thats odd as Sims normally scrap trains with like a few hours of trains arriving. Wonder what is causing Sims to be a bit slow scrapping the 319s.

SIMS don't scrap them in a few hours, what they do is drag them to one side for processing. If your laying stuff out literally side by side with no space between them you can fit a lot of stock in a small space. The cutting area is away from the rail lines. This is how they can manage to take so many deliveries in a short time.

 

[Halwynd]

319369 currently allocated today: 06:36 Wigan - Manchester, 07:13 Manchester - Wigan, 08:36 Wigan - Manchester & 09:13 Manchester - Wigan.

 

[50032]

Indeed, nobody saw this coming!

Monday 1st January 2024:

319369

Springs B 06+11 5V01
Wigan NW 06+25 06.36 2V01
Mancr Vic 07.07 07.13 2G91
Wigan NW 07.47 08.36 2V03
Mancr Vic 09.09 09.13 2G93
Wigan NW 09.46 10+09 5W03
Springs B 10+22

Springs B 15+06 5V04
Wigan NW 15+20 15.35 2V04
Mancr Vic 16.09 16.13 2G94
Wigan NW 16.46 17.22 2V06
Mancr Vic 18.09 18.13 2G96
Wigan NW 18.42 19+12 5F96
Springs B 19+26

 

[Greybeard33]

Indeed, nobody saw this coming!

Monday 1st January 2024:

319369

Springs B 06+11 5V01
Wigan NW 06+25 06.36 2V01
Mancr Vic 07.07 07.13 2G91
Wigan NW 07.47 08.36 2V03
Mancr Vic 09.09 09.13 2G93
Wigan NW 09.46 10+09 5W03
Springs B 10+22

Springs B 15+06 5V04
Wigan NW 15+20 15.35 2V04
Mancr Vic 16.09 16.13 2G94
Wigan NW 16.46 17.22 2V06
Mancr Vic 18.09 18.13 2G96
Wigan NW 18.42 19+12 5F96
Springs B 19+26

That diagram (AN812) is booked to a 3-car 331. Possibly an indication that Allerton is struggling to turn out enough of these units after sending nine to Yorkshire.

 

[GhostManDN91]

I overheard from a driver and seen at Wigan NW yesterday that 331031 was making a move from Springs Branch to Allerton as it needed either maintenance or an exam I think he said. Also I've noticed that there's been either 1 or 2 323s being used on the Liverpool to Wigan stopping services too Monday to Saturdays aswell as 331s which is interesting.

 

[david l]

I overheard from a driver and seen at Wigan NW yesterday that 331031 was making a move from Springs Branch to Allerton as it needed either maintenance or an exam I think he said. Also I've noticed that there's been either 1 or 2 323s being used on the Liverpool to Wigan stopping services too Monday to Saturdays aswell as 331s which is interesting.

Have been the odd 323 for some time, particularly first of the day from LLSt - only Liverpool crews know them, Wigan not yet trained.

 

[Geeves]

Indeed, nobody saw this coming!

Monday 1st January 2024:

319369

Springs B 06+11 5V01
Wigan NW 06+25 06.36 2V01
Mancr Vic 07.07 07.13 2G91
Wigan NW 07.47 08.36 2V03
Mancr Vic 09.09 09.13 2G93
Wigan NW 09.46 10+09 5W03
Springs B 10+22

Springs B 15+06 5V04
Wigan NW 15+20 15.35 2V04
Mancr Vic 16.09 16.13 2G94
Wigan NW 16.46 17.22 2V06
Mancr Vic 18.09 18.13 2G96
Wigan NW 18.42 19+12 5F96
Springs B 19+26

Might've been half asleep this morning but fairly certain it wasn't a 319. Just from memory it was 331009, but could be wrong. Didn't hear a single 319 motor all day (at least up till 1400 anyway).

 

[Halwynd]

Might've been half asleep this morning but fairly certain it wasn't a 319. Just from memory it was 331009, but could be wrong. Didn't hear a single 319 motor all day .

It didn't look like a 331 when I photographed it earlier...

 

[childwallblues]

Might've been half asleep this morning but fairly certain it wasn't a 319. Just from memory it was 331009, but could be wrong. Didn't hear a single 319 motor all day (at least up till 1400 anyway).

Could not have been 331009 as that is in Yorkshire these days.

 

[Geeves]

It didn't look like a 331 when I photographed it earlier...

Was that in the morning too? Maybe I am losing it haha . Lots of floods to play with in my defense

Not 009 then!