Passenger loading late at night on rural branches

[Gathursty]

I saw 1J27 was the train after mine at Wolverhampton last night and checked RTT to see it would arrive into Pwllheli at 2359!

I was thinking who'd be likely to be on it at this time of year and at that time of night especially beyond Barmouth.

Then I was thinking about all the other rural branches across the country last trains of the day and what their figures would be.

Have you been on a last train of the day on these rural branches?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Similarly the 1823 (or thereabouts) Scotrail departure from Glasgow Queen Street which eventually arrives into Mallaig at or around 2339. Wonder what the patronage is beyond Fort William?

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

I don’t know if you’d count it as rural, but the last few Carlisle-Whitehaven trains are (in my experience) usually very busy in an evening, especially Friday and Saturday evenings, to the extent it was a pleasant surprise to be able to get on last night, never mind get a seat!

 

[nwales58]

I saw 1J27 was the train after mine at Wolverhampton last night and checked RTT to see it would arrive into Pwllheli at 2359!

I was thinking who'd be likely to be on it at this time of year and at that time of night especially beyond Barmouth.

Then I was thinking about all the other rural branches across the country last trains of the day and what their figures would be.

Have you been on a last train of the day on these rural branches?

Often more north of Barmouth than Tywyn-Barmouth. Last bus is 1730 from Barmouth so train is a lifeline for Barmouth-Harlech-Porthmadog-Criccieth-Pwllheli. For a few in hospitality jobs you have to work south of where you live or car share.

Machynlleth-northwards is typically a handful of long distance passengers, more on Fridays and in summer, so the largest revenue comes from those.

Without it, the last train home would be 1440 from Euston, 1623 from Birmingham for a large part of Gwynedd. That would be the same as for people in Inverness.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

After rural pub crawls, I used to use the last trains from Hever or Cowden towards East Croydon and London on the Uckfield branch (round about 22.00) and cannot ever remember any other passengers boarding or alighting. There were usually a small handful of passengers already on the train who had presumably boarded at Uckfiled. Last trains going the other way seemed to be a little busier.

Going really far back, I used the 03.15 Shrewsbury-Swansea a couple of times and once had to train pretty much to myself until well after Llandrindod, the other time I think there was one other passenger. But the guard's van was well filled with mailbags.

 

[dk1]

22:45 FSX 23:05 FSO Norwich-Sheringham loads reasonably well each evening but can be very busy on Fridays & Saturdays. Although many get out at North Walsham you’ll get regulars getting on from there and from Cromer. The 23:47 return (00:07 SSuO) has a sprinkling of passengers on/off.

 

[Thornaby 37]

I don’t know if you’d count it as rural, but the last few Carlisle-Whitehaven trains are (in my experience) usually very busy in an evening, especially Friday and Saturday evenings, to the extent it was a pleasant surprise to be able to get on last night, never mind get a seat!

I wouldn't regard this route to be rural at all, given that it serves densely populated towns such as Workington [hence the high passenger loadings]

 

[endecotp]

Similarly the 1823 (or thereabouts) Scotrail departure from Glasgow Queen Street which eventually arrives into Mallaig at or around 2339. Wonder what the patronage is beyond Fort William?

The previous train leaves Glasgow at 1222 and Fort William at 1619.

So literally everyone who is spending the evening in Fort William, and everyone who can’t leave Glasgow until after work, and almost everyone travelling from England, will be on that train.

 

[ivorytoast28]

Last trains usually seem to be packed. Trains really don't run late enough, and often people are rushing to get them. 11pm for a last service out of a major city to local towns isn't late

 

[Bletchleyite]

I saw 1J27 was the train after mine at Wolverhampton last night and checked RTT to see it would arrive into Pwllheli at 2359!

I was thinking who'd be likely to be on it at this time of year and at that time of night especially beyond Barmouth.

Then I was thinking about all the other rural branches across the country last trains of the day and what their figures would be.

Have you been on a last train of the day on these rural branches?

I've used that one as far as Tywyn and it wasn't heaving but there were a few on.

 

[deltic]

Going really far back, I used the 03.15 Shrewsbury-Swansea a couple of times and once had to train pretty much to myself until well after Llandrindod, the other time I think there was one other passenger. But the guard's van was well filled with mailbags.

That was my experience too back in the day. Also was the only passenger on Manchester to Cleethorpes newspaper train for vast majority of the journey. More recently the last train from London to Holyhead seemed pretty empty after leaving Chester.

 

[A S Leib]

I don’t know if you’d count it as rural, but the last few Carlisle-Whitehaven trains are (in my experience) usually very busy in an evening, especially Friday and Saturday evenings, to the extent it was a pleasant surprise to be able to get on last night, never mind get a seat!

The same for the Tyne Valley line in my experience, although Newcastle isn't rural even if most of the area between it and Carlisle is.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Many of these would have to run anyway to get them (and the crew) into position for the morning, even if no one ever used them.

 

[alxndr]

Back when I was at college I used to get the train from Lowestoft to Halesworth at either around 1900 or 2100 every Wednesday. There was frequently only a handful of us on there at most.

 

[dk1]

Back when I was at college I used to get the train from Lowestoft to Halesworth at either around 1900 or 2100 every Wednesday. There was frequently only a handful of us on there at most.

Up evening trains on the East Suffolk have always loaded lightly.

 

[Horizon22]

Last trains usually seem to be packed. Trains really don't run late enough, and often people are rushing to get them. 11pm for a last service out of a major city to local towns isn't late

2300 is fairly late for most people. Obviously the further away you are from an origin / major city, the earlier the last service would be. They can reach their destination well past midnight and then run empty to the nearest depot to which you could be talking 0200. Some towns are just geographically (railway wise) in the wrong place too.

Things like the end of gigs and 'last orders' are not always completely catered for (London seems OK) but then they never have been. That being said the last train (and the first train) will always be artifically busier whenever they are simply because they are the last and first train.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Dec 2023 ==

Going really far back, I used the 03.15 Shrewsbury-Swansea a couple of times and once had to train pretty much to myself until well after Llandrindod, the other time I think there was one other passenger. But the guard's van was well filled with mailbags.

I'd suggest you're getting into early morning at that sort of time!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Going really far back, I used the 03.15 Shrewsbury-Swansea a couple of times and once had to train pretty much to myself until well after Llandrindod, the other time I think there was one other passenger. But the guard's van was well filled with mailbags.

Did that one only once, track-bashing back in the early 80s. And it did seem to be primarily for mail, as indeed was the connecting service which I think ran from Leeds to Shrewsbury via the Stalybridge/Stockport line (again the only time I've used that line) (We are talking over 40 years ago, so I may be conflating two trips.......)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Dec 2023 ==

Also was the only passenger on Manchester to Cleethorpes newspaper train for vast majority of the journey.

Used to use that occasionally when it ran via Lincoln, as a way of getting home after a late night in London - midnight from Kings Cross, a cold two hour wait at Retford, got to Lincoln at about 6am.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Did that one only once, track-bashing back in the early 80s. And it did seem to be primarily for mail, as indeed was the connecting service which I think ran from Leeds to Shrewsbury via the Stalybridge/Stockport line (again the only time I've used that line) (We are talking over 40 years ago, so I may be conflating two trips.......)

2225(ish) York-Shrewsbury with typically loco changes at both Stockport and Crewe. Back in the day at least part of the train used to go all the way to Aberystwyth. /OT

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

I wouldn't regard this route to be rural at all, given that it serves densely populated towns such as Workington [hence the high passenger loadings]

True, Workington has a population of around 20k, but you’ve also the smaller places like Aspatria, then past Whitehaven you’ve St Bees, Nethertown, Bootle, Foxfield and host of others. Plus, the railways don’t go anywhere near the really rural bits of Cumbria anymore…

 

[robert thomas]

2225(ish) York-Shrewsbury with typically loco changes at both Stockport and Crewe. Back in the day at least part of the train used to go all the way to Aberystwyth. /OT

and Swansea Victoria until June 1964

 

[Ianigsy]

I suppose part of the answer is doing what a social railway ought to do - allowing people to go to the pub or the pictures in the next town or have a day shopping in the nearest big city and come back the same day.

A little while back I looked at the Cambrian Coast on Google Maps and it was interesting to see how many of the halts seemed to be associated with small private caravan parks or campsites.

 

[FtoE]

I fairly often get the last train south from Inverness (2023) and, especially in the winter, there will be fewer than 10 people on it - often only 5/6. On one occasion I was the only passenger from Aviemore to Perth.

 

[30907]

I suppose part of the answer is doing what a social railway ought to do - allowing people to go to the pub or the pictures in the next town or have a day shopping in the nearest big city and come back the same day.

Distant memory (50 years) says the last trains out of Barmouth just after 9pm in both directions fulfilled that function very well. Partly because....

A little while back I looked at the Cambrian Coast on Google Maps and it was interesting to see how many of the halts seemed to be associated with small private caravan parks or campsites.

In this case, I think the halts came first, Penychain excepted

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Similarly the 1823 (or thereabouts) Scotrail departure from Glasgow Queen Street which eventually arrives into Mallaig at or around 2339. Wonder what the patronage is beyond Fort William?

The previous train leaves Glasgow at 1222 and Fort William at 1619.
So literally everyone who is spending the evening in Fort William, and everyone who can’t leave Glasgow until after work, and almost everyone travelling from England, will be on that train.

In summer probably quite a few (in relative terms)

So literally everyone who is spending the evening in Fort William,

In winter probably hardly anyone and sometimes no one at all

and everyone who can’t leave Glasgow until after work, and almost everyone travelling from England, will be on that train.

In winter I would guess passenger numbers in single figures, maybe a few more at a weekend.

 

[deltic08]

True, Workington has a population of around 20k, but you’ve also the smaller places like Aspatria, then past Whitehaven you’ve St Bees, Nethertown, Bootle, Foxfield and host of others. Plus, the railways don’t go anywhere near the really rural bits of Cumbria anymore…

The population of Workington is more like 30,000 than 20,000. It was 28,000 when I looked it up years ago.

 

[benbristow]

That was my experience too back in the day. Also was the only passenger on Manchester to Cleethorpes newspaper train for vast majority of the journey. More recently the last train from London to Holyhead seemed pretty empty after leaving Chester.

Newspaper train?

 

[dk1]

Newspaper train?

North of England newspaper trains originated in Manchester. A few carried a passenger vehicle or two.

 

[deltic]

Not exactly rural but loadings on London Overground to Barking Riverside services seem to be countable on the fingers of one hand off peak. Hopefully they will pick up considerably once the new homes are all built out.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

North of England newspaper trains originated in Manchester. A few carried a passenger vehicle or two.

Are we still talking about current late-at-night rural services, or ones from possibly some 35+ years ago?

 

[dk1]

Are we still talking about current late-at-night rural services, or ones from possibly some 35+ years ago?

What do you think?