WMR Class 196 Build and Implementation

[Wolfie]

A quick look at RTT appears to show 1G99 takes longer than the normal services. If so hardly a fast service.
I agree though that in this day and age Shrewsbury and intermediate stations warrant a 2 tph service.

Of course Shrewsbury, Telford Central and Wellington already have a 2TPH service albeit the timings are weird courtesy of the hourly TfW service.

 

[AJDesiro]

A quick look at RTT appears to show 1G99 takes longer than the normal services. If so hardly a fast service.
I agree though that in this day and age Shrewsbury and intermediate stations warrant a 2 tph service.

It takes the same length of time that the current WMT service takes, though it may be slightly slower with the 3 extra station calls.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thank you for this. I will instruct my 10 year old Grandson to give it a go! Don't want to delete the whole Forum!
The trouble with Smart phones is that it assumes somebody smart is using them. This doesn't apply in my case.
I took a number of photos in an attempt to minimise the shadows but couldn't really do it. It's surprising really that at this angle and the colour of the units they look quite smart.
114 did not stop long before returning to Brum. It did however return later in the day

Done!

Well done !.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2023 ==

There was some discussion earlier in the month on this thread regarding the use of 196/0s.
With the use of these units on the Nuneaton and Camp Hill lines and I assume the temporary use of the units on the E-W line is that the long term plan? I thought the E-W line fell under Chiltern or am I mistaken? If not then surely there must be a plan for these units within the West Midlands. Will these units get transferred to Chiltern? Did someone actually have the foresight to increase the 196/0 order to cater for this? If so it would be a first!

I would say the main concern is what to use so many 196/0s on until East West Rail takes six. Only need two 196/0s for Nuneaton-Leanmington and eventually two more maybe for Camp Hill, that leaves eight spare out of twelve.

 

[JonathanH]

But, according to the West Mids Route Strategy, Hereford should go to 2tph too (once the Midlands Rail Hub is completed, of course).

Is Hereford going 2tph, or is it just 2tph to Worcester / Great Malvern and 1tph beyond given the single track issues?

Either way, at present, the Hereford diagrams are a little slack due to the long turnarounds. Could 1tph Worcester / 1tph Hereford be provided reliably by six units?

 

[Liam L]

This would leave roughly 3-6 units not needed each day, which is cutting it fine closer to the 3 side. It’ll probably be fine, but it definitely means WMT will lose some flexibility.

3 - 6 units not needed each days seems about right. The current 323 fleet of 25 needs 22 available each day for a full service iirc

Obviously it start to be a bit tight when northern starts robbing more units in the new year.

 

[Pumbaa]

Current base position for the fleet is as follows for both /1 4 car and /0 2 car sets.
5 x /1 Shrewsbury
5 x /1 Hereford
2 x /1 Camp Hill (neither yet accepted from CAF)
2 x /1 Maintenance (totals 14/14)

2 x /0 Nuckle
2 x /0 for future Hereford peak services (yet to be reinstated post Covid)
1 x /0 for future Shrewsbury fast service referenced above
1 x /0 Maintenance (totals 6/12)
6 x /0 for EWR

As you can see, fleet well allocated. Before the final 3x 2 car sets and balance of EWR are required, they are covering for a serious mod programme to bring the fleet up to scratch to where they should be, with various permutations of 4 car trains until that point.

Fleet should be well matched to capacity even in the interim. There are no funded plans in the meantime to use the 6x 2 cars if EWR didn’t want them, so they would just sit spare or be stored.

 

[Class172]

But, according to the West Mids Route Strategy, Hereford should go to 2tph too (once the Midlands Rail Hub is completed, of course).

I think that will be a while off yet, as I believe some infrastructure changes will be required to support such service levels. That said, an all day 1tph Hereford and 1tph Worcester service could certainly be achievable on a shorter timeframe.

 

[GWVillager]

Is Hereford going 2tph, or is it just 2tph to Worcester / Great Malvern and 1tph beyond given the single track issues?

Either way, at present, the Hereford diagrams are a little slack due to the long turnarounds. Could 1tph Worcester / 1tph Hereford be provided reliably by six units?

I think that will be a while off yet, as I believe some infrastructure changes will be required to support such service levels. That said, an all day 1tph Hereford and 1tph Worcester service could certainly be achievable on a shorter timeframe.

The Midlands Rail Hub project includes "remodelling" between Northfield and Kings Norton, and "line upgrades" between Worcester and Hereford (presumably redoubling). The time frame for this and the new Hereford services (which are 2tph, 1 to New St. and 1 to Moor St.) is 2026-2031, and attached is the service pattern. So long as it's not cancelled (which is entirely possible), this will happen, as the Government has stated their intention to support the Midlands Rail Hub and associated investment strategy.

Here's the full strategy, it's quite interesting and I would like to see it delivered. There's plenty to discuss on how rolling stock will be used in it, it might be worth starting a new thread:

https://wmre.org.uk/media/aryjxnga/wmre-investment-strategy-and-summary-final.pdf

 

[172007]

The Midlands Rail Hub project includes "remodelling" between Northfield and Kings Norton, and "line upgrades" between Worcester and Hereford (presumably redoubling). The time frame for this and the new Hereford services (which are 2tph, 1 to New St. and 1 to Moor St.) is 2026-2031, and attached is the service pattern. So long as it's not cancelled (which is entirely possible), this will happen, as the Government has stated their intention to support the Midlands Rail Hub and associated investment strategy.

Here's the full strategy, it's quite interesting and I would like to see it delivered. There's plenty to discuss on how rolling stock will be used in it, it might be worth starting a new thread:

https://wmre.org.uk/media/aryjxnga/wmre-investment-strategy-and-summary-final.pdf

Thread open for railhub called named

West Midlands Rail investment Strategy 2022-2050​

Sorry Mods don't know how to link a thread.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thread open for railhub called named

West Midlands Rail investment Strategy 2022-2050​

Sorry Mods don't know how to link a thread.

Here is a link.

 

[nigelsporne]

The latest edition of the RCTS's Railway Observer states that testing on the E-W is due to begin in October 24 with services due to commence in early 25. Will there be a dedicated pool of 196/0s for these services? Are they likely to be rebranded? Will they run through to Bedford?

 

[AJDesiro]

The latest edition of the RCTS's Railway Observer states that testing on the E-W is due to begin in October 24 with services due to commence in early 25. Will there be a dedicated pool of 196/0s for these services? Are they likely to be rebranded? Will they run through to Bedford?

I'm fairly sure it'll be a dedicated pool, though I wouldn't imagine they'll be extensively rebranded with them being subleased, the most they'll do is probably put Chiltern logos over the WMR logos. The initial plan is for them to run on Oxford-Milton Keynes services, which do not go as far as Bedford - that'll still be 150s for the foreseeable future.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The initial plan is for them to run on Oxford-Milton Keynes services, which do not go as far as Bedford - that'll still be 150s for the foreseeable future.

That's rather poor. What are they waiting on, and how long will it take?

 

[AJDesiro]

That's rather poor. What are they waiting on, and how long will it take?

I've honestly no clue, but the Marston Vale portion of the route (Connection Stage 2) needs upgrading before it can accommodate EWR services, including the redoubling of track at Fenny Stratford, a replacement station for Bedford St Johns at Bedford Hospital, line speed increases, the need for a passing loop at some point along the line and (if I've read the EWR website correctly) a remodel of Bedford station. I don't really know if anybody knows if/when this will ever happen given the state of GB rail at the moment.

 

[nigelsporne]

Would it not make sense to upgrade where required before the remainder of the line is ready? They had ample opportunity to do this when there were no services.
Similarly wouldn't it make sense to start using 196/0s instead of the 150s to begin training?

 

[JonathanH]

Similarly wouldn't it make sense to start using 196/0s instead of the 150s to begin training?

There is no indication that the staff currently employed by West Midlands Railway in providing the existing Marston Vale service will in future work for Chiltern providing the future East West Rail service.

Technically the 196s don't fit on the platforms in any case.

 

[nigelsporne]

Thank you.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I've honestly no clue, but the Marston Vale portion of the route (Connection Stage 2) needs upgrading before it can accommodate EWR services, including the redoubling of track at Fenny Stratford, a replacement station for Bedford St Johns at Bedford Hospital, line speed increases, the need for a passing loop at some point along the line and (if I've read the EWR website correctly) a remodel of Bedford station. I don't really know if anybody knows if/when this will ever happen given the state of GB rail at the moment.

+

Would it not make sense to upgrade where required before the remainder of the line is ready? They had ample opportunity to do this when there were no services.
Similarly wouldn't it make sense to start using 196/0s instead of the 150s to begin training?

An elephant in the room was iirc the reduction in stations on the Marston vale line to suit East West Rail.

Is that rationalisation issue being kicked down the road ?.

Was the obliteration of the service this year an opportunity ?.

Has the obliteration of the service helped un-justify some of the stations ?.

Was it to be an all stations Marston Vale service overlaid with a faster East West Rail Service ?.

Have I got my memory wrong ?.

ARE WE DRIFTING OFF TOPIC ?.

---

EDIT - below added 04/01/2024.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==

I thought I would add these from the non-urgent TOPS thread as they add a bit of info on progress.

Anyone know any of these London Midland stock running on 1st Jan 2024, don't need full unit numbers if it helps, just the stock formations like 3 car 196 or 2 car 172 would be fine just need stock types for SimSig timetable I'm doing:

2J14 09.56 Birmingham New Street - Shrewsbury
2J16 10.56 Birmingham New Street - Shrewsbury
2J18 11.56 Birmingham New Street - Shrewsbury
2J20 12.56 Birmingham New Street - Shrewsbury
(Should be all 4 that were out I believe, I can work the rest from their circuits)

1F62 15.34 Birmingham New Street - Liverpool, I was in New Street today trying to locate some stock formations, I noted this as a 4 car 350 now I'm not sure if that was actually an 8 car or if I was right in seeing a 4 car)

1V21 16.50 Birmingham New Street - Hereford
1V22 17.20 Birmingham New Street - Hereford
1V25 18.20 Birmingham New Street - Hereford
1V27 19.20 Birmingham New Street - Hereford


Any of the above stock formations would really be appreciated! Not a West Midlands expert by any means but I am otherwise assuming the Shrewsbury's and Hereford's were all 196's (saw the 15.50 ex New Street to Hereford as a 3 car 196, presuming the rest possibly were as well?)

+

Hi,

All 4 2Jxx services ran and were formed of 4 car Class 196s.
1F62 was a 4 car 350.
1V21 - 2 car 172.
1V22 - 2x 2 car 196s
1V25 and 1V27 - 4 car 196

+

All Hereford to Birmingham services are booked for a 4 car 196 now. The 172s are ad hoc covering when they appear now, like above.

I have noticed since December 2023 a pair of 2car 196/0s occasionally appearing on the Shrewsbury route, sometimes a singe 2car. I think 4car 196/1s are the intended, certainly were the norm before December 2023.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

+

An elephant in the room was iirc the reduction in stations on the Marston vale line to suit East West Rail.

Is that rationalisation issue being kicked down the road ?.

Was the obliteration of the service this year an opportunity ?.

Has the obliteration of the service helped un-justify some of the stations ?.

Was it to be an all stations Marston Vale service overlaid with a faster East West Rail Service ?.

Have I got my memory wrong ?.

ARE WE DRIFTING OFF TOPIC ?.

---

EDIT - below added 04/01/2024.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Jan 2024 ==

I thought I would add these from the non-urgent TOPS thread as they add a bit of info on progress.

+

+

I have noticed since December 2023 a pair of 2car 196/0s occasionally appearing on the Shrewsbury route, sometimes a singe 2car. I think 4car 196/1s are the intended, certainly were the norm before December 2023.

There is a booked pair on Shrewsbury services now.

 

[AJDesiro]

I’m currently sat on 196101 and it looks like it’s had guard panels fitted in the intermediate carriages (none in the end carriages), with one on each side per carriage. Does anyone know of any other units that have had them fitted?

 

[newtownmgr]

Most have been fitted. Will only be fitted in the middle vehicles. None commissioned yet

 

[py_megapixel]

I’m currently sat on 196101 and it looks like it’s had guard panels fitted in the intermediate carriages (none in the end carriages), with one on each side per carriage. Does anyone know of any other units that have had them fitted?

Are the panels opposite each other (i.e. the same vestibule has panels for both sides)? The 195 and 331 have a staggered arrangement, which has proven to be a design flaw as it means that on a busy train, if adjacent stations have platforms on opposite sides, the guard has to push through half a carriage length of standing passengers!

 

[AJDesiro]

Are the panels opposite each other (i.e. the same vestibule has panels for both sides)? The 195 and 331 have a staggered arrangement, which has proven to be a design flaw as it means that on a busy train, if adjacent stations have platforms on opposite sides, the guard has to push through half a carriage length of standing passengers!

They're staggered, it does bemuse me that the 196s hardly have any guard panels, and the 730s have panels at every vestibule AFAIK.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It has all gone quiet but I have not noticed 196113 or 196114 in service. They are the last two but it seems an age since 186112 started being used - November 2023 iirc.

Does anyone know what is happening ?.

 

[Mordac]

Seen 196109 today at Northfield with an unfortunate livery addition.

 

[Abluhwleh]

Seen 196109 today at Northfield with an unfortunate livery addition.

Give us a clue?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Give us a clue?

I'd guess graffiti.

 

[Mordac]

I'd guess graffiti.

Yep, on one of the middle coaches.

 

[Mordac]

Have 113 and 114 entered service yet?

 

[newtownmgr]

No