Thameslink - Intent to prosecute Letter - (Advice)

[JKWRailForums1]

Hi all on the forums,

I received an intent to prosecute letter from Thameslink. I travelled using a short ticket (London Bridge to St Pancras) when my full travel was for Redhill to St Pancras. This was the first time I have been caught doing something like this, however I had been doing this for about a month beforehand (around 9 times total). When stopped at the station, I initially played ignorant, before admitting my actions to the staff member and being pulled aside to answer questions, which I answered truthfully. I feel very guilty and stupid, and wont do such a thing again.


I am curious as to whether not not
1. The Prosecutions team would be aware of any previous infractions alongside the one I was caught for in October (I am currently assuming yes, and that I will be charged for these as well)
2. Wether or not getting a fare evasion lawyer would be the best bet in this case, and the likelihood of my case being settle out of court.

I have a copy of the letter I received, as well as a letter I have drafted in response.

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks!


Drafted Letter:

To the Prosecutions Department,

Thank you for your letter, dated the 22nd of December. Please consider this letter to be my ‘Response from the Passenger’ note.

On the 17th of October, I did indeed travel on an invalid ticket. Firstly, please allow me to offer my sincerest apologies for paying for the incorrect ticket. There is no excuse for this. I would also like to extend my apologies to the member of staff who stopped me, as I initially feigned ignorance to my incorrect ticket before admitting to my actions.

It was wrong and stupid of me to do this, and I never intend to avoid paying the full fare for travel on Thameslink or any other service ever again.

I understand now that it will be up to the Prosecutions Department to progress this matter as they see fit. If the matter can be settled without criminal prosecution, I would be eternally grateful and compliant. I can only humbly express my desire to pay for any costs associated with the receipt of this letter, the administration of this notice, and the fare that I have dodged, alongside any other penalty that the Prosecution Department deems fit.

I sincerely apologise for my actions, and I await your response regarding further action.

Yours sincerely,

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

We are seeing lots of cases like this on the forum at the moment. How were you getting onto the platform at Redhill without a ticket, or were you buying another short distance ticket from Redhill to another nearby station?

To answer your specific questions:

1. The Prosecutions team would be aware of any previous infractions alongside the one I was caught for in October (I am currently assuming yes, and that I will be charged for these as well)

GTR will be able to research your online ticket pourchasing history and will have visibility of all the tickets you've purchased.

2. Wether or not getting a fare evasion lawyer would be the best bet in this case, and the likelihood of my case being settle out of court.

I'd say a lawyer is not necessary at this stage. This is a straightforward case and GTR are normally one of the more pragmatic train companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing. I'd wait and see what they say in response to your reply before considering using the services of a lawyer.

To the Prosecutions Department,

Thank you for your letter, dated the 22nd of December. Please consider this letter to be my ‘Response from the Passenger’ note.

On the 17th of October, I did indeed travel on an invalid ticket. Firstly, please allow me to offer my sincerest apologies intentionally paying for the incorrect ticket. There is no excuse for this. I would also like to extend my apologies to the member of staff who stopped me, as I initially feigned ignorance to my incorrect ticket before admitting to my actions.

It was wrong and stupid of me to do this, and I never intend to avoid paying the full fare for travel on Thameslink or any other service

I understand now that it will be up to the Prosecutions Department to progress this matter as they see fit. If the matter can be settled without criminal prosecution, I would be eternally grateful and compliant. I can only humbly express my desire to pay for any costs associated with the receipt of this letter, the administration of this notice, and the fare that I have dodged, alongside any other penalty that the Prosecution Department deems fit.

I sincerely apologise for my actions, and I await your response regarding further action.

Yours sincerely,

This is a decent first effort but I suggest some adjustments:

1. Start the letter Dear GTR (or even better the name of the person who sent it to you)

please allow me to offer my sincerest apologies intentionally paying for the incorrect ticket.

This doesn't make sense. Consider saying something like I would like to apologise for travelling with a ticket that was not valid for my journey.

I would also like to extend my apologies to the member of staff who stopped me, as I initially feigned ignorance to my incorrect ticket before admitting to my actions.

Cut this out. There is no need to apologise to the member of staff - they were doing their job. Feigned ignorance before admitting to being wrong is a dangerous thing to say as it implies that you knew exactly what you were doing.

I never intend to avoid paying the full fare for travel on Thameslink or any other service

This is not true. You deliberately chose not to pay the correct fare, and on several occasions!

If the matter can be settled without criminal prosecution, I would be eternally grateful and compliant. I can only humbly express my desire to pay for any costs associated with the receipt of this letter, the administration of this notice, and the fare that I have dodged, alongside any other penalty that the Prosecution Department deems fit.

This wording needs changing.

I suggest something like 'I was wondering if it would be possible to settle the case without the need for court action and am willing to pay the outstanding fare in addition to your administrative costs in dealing with this matter'.

I'd wait and see if other forum members have any further suggestions before posting up a further draft.

 

[John R]

I think the “never intend” is meant to talk about the future, rather than the past, but it is clumsily worded. I would suggest “In future I will always pay the correct fare …”

 

[JKWRailForums1]

I think the “never intend” is meant to talk about the future, rather than the past, but it is clumsily worded. I would suggest “In future I will always pay the correct fare …”

Hey there,

You are correct, it just missworded!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Dec 2023 ==

Welcome to the forum!

We are seeing lots of cases like this on the forum at the moment. How were you getting onto the platform at Redhill without a ticket, or were you buying another short distance ticket from Redhill to another nearby station?

To answer your specific questions:


GTR will be able to research your online ticket pourchasing history and will have visibility of all the tickets you've purchased.


I'd say a lawyer is not necessary at this stage. This is a straightforward case and GTR are normally one of the more pragmatic train companies to deal with when it comes to this sort of thing. I'd wait and see what they say in response to your reply before considering using the services of a lawyer.


This is a decent first effort but I suggest some adjustments:

1. Start the letter Dear GTR (or even better the name of the person who sent it to you)


This doesn't make sense. Consider saying something like I would like to apologise for travelling with a ticket that was not valid for my journey.


Cut this out. There is no need to apologise to the member of staff - they were doing their job. Feigned ignorance before admitting to being wrong is a dangerous thing to say as it implies that you knew exactly what you were doing.


This is not true. You deliberately chose not to pay the correct fare, and on several occasions!


This wording needs changing.

I suggest something like 'I was wondering if it would be possible to settle the case without the need for court action and am willing to pay the outstanding fare in addition to your administrative costs in dealing with this matter'.

I'd wait and see if other forum members have any further suggestions before posting up a further draft.

Hi Hadders,

Thank you for your reply and your advice. A lot of the stuff you suggest in your reply is actually just poor language by me, and so I will get that fixed.

1. Will start with GDR,

2. Will alter my wording with regards to admission to avoid implications

3. Will cut out mention of staff.

4. Worded poorly (will fix)

Just to conclude, a solicitor is probably not the best route right now, but should they choose to convict, then a solicitor would be appropriate? Or if they choose to prosecute, should I just take it without a legal representative.

Edit: There is a back entrance to Redhill which is not gated, and leads to the platforms, meaning I wouldn't have to scan a ticket to get in.

Thanks again, you're a legend!

 

[Hadders]

Just to conclude, a solicitor is probably not the best route right now, but should they choose to convict, then a solicitor would be appropriate? Or if they choose to prosecute, should I just take it without a legal representative.

My view is that a solicitor is not required at this stage.

If they decide to prosecute then you might want to consider using one. A conviction is what you want to avoid as this means you have been found guilty by the court (or pleaded guilty).

 

[JKWRailForums1]

My view is that a solicitor is not required at this stage.

If they decide to prosecute then you might want to consider using one. A conviction is what you want to avoid as this means you have been found guilty by the court (or pleaded guilty).

Hi again Hadders,

Just to confirm, a solicitor should be called upon to seek a settlement outside of court after they send me a letter saying they will 100% prosecute me? I currently only have an intent letter.

 

[Hadders]

Hi again Hadders,

Just to confirm, a solicitor should be called upon to seek a settlement outside of court after they send me a letter saying they will 100% prosecute me? I currently only have an intent letter.

At this stage they haven’t decided what action they are going to take. They have asked for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. There are 3 potential outcomes:

1. Drop the case entirely - highly unlikely as they have you ‘bang to rights’

2. Offer an out of court settlement. This is where you pay them a sum of money and in return they do not prosecute. In my opinion this is the most likely outcome unless you have come to their attention before or there is more to the case than what you have told us.

3. Prosecute you in the Magistrates Court. While this is a possibility I think this is unlikely if you co-operate with their investigation. There are plenty of cases similar to yours on the forum where GTR have offered out of court settlements.

Once they have your reply to their letter GTR will decide how to proceed. If they do decide to prosecute then that would be the time to involve a solicitor, in my opinion.

 

[JKWRailForums1]

At this stage they haven’t decided what action they are going to take. They have asked for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. There are 3 potential outcomes:

1. Drop the case entirely - highly unlikely as they have you ‘bang to rights’

2. Offer an out of court settlement. This is where you pay them a sum of money and in return they do not prosecute. In my opinion this is the most likely outcome unless you have come to their attention before or there is more to the case than what you have told us.

3. Prosecute you in the Magistrates Court. While this is a possibility I think this is unlikely if you co-operate with their investigation. There are plenty of cases similar to yours on the forum where GTR have offered out of court settlements.

Once they have your reply to their letter GTR will decide how to proceed. If they do decide to prosecute then that would be the time to involve a solicitor, in my opinion.

Hi Hadders,

Thanks again for your insight. I had booked a consultation but I am yet to pay it, would it be wise to attend this and pay the consultation fee (it is quite high) or cancel? (I am aware that you are not a lawyer, but thank you for your insight regardless.)


I have also finished up the draft of my letter:

Dear GTR,

Thank you for your letter, dated the 22nd of December. Please consider this letter to be my ‘Response from the Passenger’ note.

On the 17th of October, I did indeed travel on an invalid ticket. I would like to take the chance to apologise for travelling with a ticket that was not valid for my journey. There is no excuse for this.

It was wrong of me to do this, and I will never avoid paying the full fare for travel on Thameslink or any other service ever again.

I understand now that it will be up to the Prosecutions Department to progress this matter as they see fit. I was wondering if it would be possible to settle the case without the need for court action; I am compliant and willing to pay for any costs associated with this matter, including your administrative costs, the penalty fine and the outstanding fare.

I sincerely apologise for my actions, and I await your response regarding further action.

Yours sincerely,

 

[Hadders]

I had booked a consultation but I am yet to pay it, would it be wise to attend this and pay the consultation fee (it is quite high) or cancel?

I feel like I am repeating myself answering this!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a solicitor. I expect they would be able to successfully arrange an out of court settlement with Thameslink and they will probably be able to do this faster than if you do it yourself. The problem with using a solicitor is their high cost.

My personal view remains unchanged, I have seen plenty of cases similar to yours on here involving GTR where they will settle if you write them a letter along the lines I have suggested.

A solicitor cannot guarantee an out of court settlement and neither can I, but given what you have told us I would be surprised if you are not offered one.

Only you can make the decision.

 

[spag23]

including your administrative costs, the penalty fine and the outstanding fare.

GTR cannot impose a fine; such punishments are only in the gift(!) of the Courts. GTR are limited to recovering the fares and their admin costs; or of course taking it all to Court instead.
Hadders' point is that you might as well see if your own response works before engaging a solicitor. Nothing is lost from this approach; none of your bridges are burnt!

 

[JKWRailForums1]

Hey all,

Thanks for the advice in previous posts. For anyone that may use this post to inform themselves of similar action, I am writing just to say that I received an out-of-court settlement on this occasion.

 

[Mclean]

Hey all,

Thanks for the advice in previous posts. For anyone that may use this post to inform themselves of similar action, I am writing just to say that I received an out-of-court settlement on this occasion.

Heyyy, happy for you did you include in your response please help

 

[30907]

Hey all,

Thanks for the advice in previous posts. For anyone that may use this post to inform themselves of similar action, I am writing just to say that I received an out-of-court settlement on this occasion.

Thanks for letting us know!

 

[Gloster]

Heyyy, happy for you did you include in your response please help

Please stick to your own thread. Having two threads running can only cause confusion for you and others.

 

[Mclean]

Please stick to your own thread. Having two threads running can only cause confusion for you and others.

My Apologies.