New style for Elizabeth line platform departure screens?

[Taunton]

Not calling at ❌ Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell

That's a negative sentence, so needs "Not calling at Acton Main Line, West Ealing NOR Hanwell"

4 - Heathrow Terminal 5

All stations ✅

This relies too much on knowing the railway geography, that it serves Terminals 2, 3 and 5 but not 4. Should list them all.

 

[Basil Jet]

At Paddington westbound today. Eastbound still shows old style. No more scrolling through the line diagram.View attachment 143679View attachment 143680

What's the point of taking up a quarter of the display to tell you that the second train in 5 minutes isn't going anywhere at all?

 

[Busman]

That's a negative sentence, so needs "Not calling at Acton Main Line, West Ealing NOR Hanwell"

4 - Heathrow Terminal 5

All stations ✅

This relies too much on knowing the railway geography, that it serves Terminals 2, 3 and 5 but not 4. Should list them all.

The red cross is in the wrong position for a start.

 

[stuu]

I absolutely agree that would be the best option. Same for the ELL and if possible, Thameslink. SR numbering had the right idea

I heard RER A did this with lettering, but as the pic above, they don't seem to have that anymore?

It's still on there, the code is in the corner on that screen - QURE I think. They are very useful for regular users, as you don't need to wait for it to scroll through for the stopping pattern. But for non-regular users they are a mystery

 

[Horizon22]

Personally I'd list the stations the train isn't stopping at. It's a metro service after all and the expectation is it will stop at all stations, it also provides the information quickly rather than having to scroll or read through a large list of stations.

If I'm getting on a train heading east and it's not stopping at say Acton Main Line then that's what I need to know, as I would otherwise expect it to stop there.

Here's a quick example based on the photo above:

1 - Heathrow Terminal 4 .	All stations ✅
2 - Terminates here
3 - Maidenhead	Not calling at ❌ Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell .
4 - Heathrow Terminal 5	All stations ✅

The old displays already had where the trains were not stopping at, but passenger feedback was that was confusing. So obviously there’s lots of different opinions and can’t please everyone!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Oct 2023 ==

Given what other countries do, seeking to harmonise calling patterns and number the services EL1, EL2 etc with clear maps on display would be the best option. Same with the Met - either all Amershams should be fast, or all trains should call all stations. That is without question the best way to do an urban fast metro.

Then all you need to show is EL1 Heathrow T5, say, and everyone knows (or can easily find) what that means.

Nice is principle, but the timetable does not allow it.

 

[LLivery]

It's still on there, the code is in the corner on that screen - QURE I think. They are very useful for regular users, as you don't need to wait for it to scroll through for the stopping pattern. But for non-regular users they are a mystery

Ah so it is! That's great

 

[Ps192]

New set of trials spotted at Paddington station. Very similar in style to the one in the opening post.

 

[cactustwirly]

I think particularly with the peak time services, Reading services should be labelled as semi-fast like the Met Line. Then show calling patterns for each service after Paddington.

Especially for services like this https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P09050/2023-12-22

Which runs fast from Ealing to West Drayton, then Slough, Burnham, Maidenhead, Twyford and then Reading.

The "fast" services would ofc be the GWR services which aren't relevant as they depart from Paddington high level

 

[Via Bank]

New set of trials spotted at Paddington station. Very similar in style to the one in the opening post.

That’s much better. Text height is a bit anaemic but that’s going to be much more useful and immediately understandable, especially when people need to make a quick decision on the platforms.

 

[PGAT]

I think they should swap the colour of terminating and through trains, since the through trains are what people are looking for and should be the ones that are highlighted

 

[pbin]

New set of trials spotted at Paddington station. Very similar in style to the one in the opening post.

I think that having scrolling text for the stations calls and making it larger would be a lot more beneficial than what they’re trailing now, although it’s an improvement from the first few trials. I’m still not sure whether this is better than the line diagram. There must be some sort of approach that incorporates them both. Perhaps showing the list of stations for all trains, and then after a certain amount of time it could switch to the line diagram of the next train (although this could be confusing too… I realise it’s not so easy to show complex route information for different services which have been branded under one line!).

 

[IndianPacific]

I think that having scrolling text for the stations calls and making it larger would be a lot more beneficial than what they’re trailing now, although it’s an improvement from the first few trials. I’m still not sure whether this is better than the line diagram. There must be some sort of approach that incorporates them both. Perhaps showing the list of stations for all trains, and then after a certain amount of time it could switch to the line diagram of the next train (although this could be confusing too… I realise it’s not so easy to show complex route information for different services which have been branded under one line!).

You need to scroll text quite slowly to keep it accessible. That then doesn’t work well when you have short headways and long destination lists as station names can spend more time off the screen than on it and people get nervous if they can‘t see their destinations the screen. This is particularly bad on some SWR screens that seem to start the whole spiel again whenever any piece of displayed information changes meaning they often don’t get the the last few stations.

To me, the problem on Crossrail goes all the way back to the (probably architectural) decision to only use screens above the doors, I’m sure they’ll have some theory that putting the screens above every door spreads people along the platform, but they have massively constrained themselves with the format.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I would have kept it simple with the following:

View attachment 143759

Maybe on that second screen then also display a bigger version of the already existing minimap / route map that shows the other lines available on said stations and the step free access. Step free access icon would only show if its available, if it isn't then as expected it won't show. Screen two would flash between the text list of stations and the minimap / route map image.

View attachment 143761

Version with the separation bars:
View attachment 143762

Should keep it simple like this imo, filling the limited screen space with loads of text on the right screen will still lead to passengers getting confused. Less is very much more imo from first hand view at the trials.

 

[Benjwri]

Should keep it simple like this imo, filling the limited screen space with loads of text on the right screen will still lead to passengers getting confused. Less is very much more imo from first hand view at the trials.

Wonder if the fact their boards can't actually work out the next arrival has anything to do with not doing something like that.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Wonder if the fact their boards can't actually work out the next arrival has anything to do with not doing something like that.

Tbh for the most part the boards are ok till a unit swap or disruption occurs.

 

[Acton1991]

I think particularly with the peak time services, Reading services should be labelled as semi-fast like the Met Line. Then show calling patterns for each service after Paddington.

Especially for services like this https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P09050/2023-12-22

Which runs fast from Ealing to West Drayton, then Slough, Burnham, Maidenhead, Twyford and then Reading.

The "fast" services would ofc be the GWR services which aren't relevant as they depart from Paddington high level

Agree, I also think that the line diagrams should show two different lines west of Paddington - one for the Reading service, and one for the Heathrow services.

 

[JKF]

My god these are hideous - who is designing these! They are so over complicated. I agree with others, they should just note where the services are NOT calling at. Or the line diagrams should reflect the calling patters in a better way (eg two lines West from Paddington) so everyone knows the Heathrow services are not 'all stations'

The trouble with having ‘not calling at’ on the information screen is that passengers such as tourists who don’t speak English might just be looking for the name of the destination they are going to on the screen and miss out the vital first three words. In fact I suspect some skim-reading natives could also miss it.

 

[thomalex]

The trouble with having ‘not calling at’ on the information screen is that passengers such as tourists who don’t speak English might just be looking for the name of the destination they are going to on the screen and miss out the vital first three words. In fact I suspect some skim-reading natives could also miss it.

I understand that but it also has to be weighed up against the usability of listing every single station either in a scrolling screen or in tiny writing which is also less than ideal.

I can also understand they’ve used the precedent of mainline railways which list everywhere a train will stop.

Then again the Elizabeth line is a metro service and the expectation is it stops at every stop on the line diagram. I do feel that with adequate signing (say red text with crosses ❌) it would be reasonably clear these are stations that aren’t being called at.

And of course it would make the signs much more glanceable and useful for many.

 

[Benjwri]

Then again the Elizabeth line is a metro service and the expectation is it stops at every stop on the line diagram. I do feel that with adequate signing (say red text with crosses ❌) it would be reasonably clear these are stations that aren’t being called at.

I think this is the solution, or just what you see on the RER where the calling points which are being stopped at have a lit dot next to them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think this is the solution, or just what you see on the RER where the calling points which are being stopped at have a lit dot next to them.

I think this is all missing the point, which is that an S Bahn like this should have a fully consistent stopping pattern, so all they need to show is E1, E2 etc and it's clear what that means.

 

[HSTEd]

How many different stopping pattern combinations are there?

 

[NSEWonderer]

How many different stopping pattern combinations are there?

All services stop at all stations to Paddington in the COS,
The main changes happens outside the COS, more so on the west.
Heathrow T5s will Skip Acton Main Line, Hanwell and Southall where as Heathrow T4s will stop at all stations on the way to Heathrow.

Reading services will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell usually.

Maidenhead services will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell and Taplow.

There can be slight variations with the Reading services, the 17:46 and 18:12 which are both classed as the fast Reading services:

Will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall, Hayes & Harlington, Iver, Langley and Taplow.

From what I know of these are the consistent stopping patterns from origin stations(Shenfield or Abbey Wood):

Reading Fast
Reading Semi-Fast
Maidenhead Semi-Fast
Heathrow T5 Semi Fast
Heathrow T4 Slow
Paddington Slow

 

[Benjwri]

I think this is all missing the point, which is that an S Bahn like this should have a fully consistent stopping pattern, so all they need to show is E1, E2 etc and it's clear what that means.

You always should show the destinations though, to help tourists and those for whom a line number means nothing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You always should show the destinations though, to help tourists and those for whom a line number means nothing.

Yes, but if things are consistent you needn't show calling points, people can look at a map to see what they are.

 

[Benjwri]

Yes, but if things are consistent you needn't show calling points, people can look at a map to see what they are.

I dont know enough about Elizabeth Line usage to suggest whether the calling patterns should be changed, I was just commenting on a solution for platforms screens given the current service pattern.

 

[cactustwirly]

All services stop at all stations to Paddington in the COS,
The main changes happens outside the COS, more so on the west.
Heathrow T5s will Skip Acton Main Line, Hanwell and Southall where as Heathrow T4s will stop at all stations on the way to Heathrow.

Reading services will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell usually.

Maidenhead services will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell and Taplow.

There can be slight variations with the Reading services, the 17:46 and 18:12 which are both classed as the fast Reading services:

Will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall, Hayes & Harlington, Iver, Langley and Taplow.

From what I know of these are the consistent stopping patterns from origin stations(Shenfield or Abbey Wood):

Reading Fast
Reading Semi-Fast
Maidenhead Semi-Fast
Heathrow T5 Semi Fast
Heathrow T4 Slow
Paddington Slow

You can't have Reading fast as that is confusing in relation to GWR services which are fast.
They should put the red crosses on the LO, like how Chingford services skip Cambridge Heath and London Fields

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Dec 2023 ==

Yes, but if things are consistent you needn't show calling points, people can look at a map to see what they are.

Things are not consistent in the peak times

 

[NSEWonderer]

You can't have Reading fast as that is confusing in relation to GWR services which are fast.
They should put the red crosses on the LO, like how Chingford services skip Cambridge Heath and London Fields

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Dec 2023 ==


Things are not consistent in the peak times

I'm not saying we should call it reading fast on the screens but as the poster I was replying to asked that is one of the stopping patterns in reference to the Elizabeth Line itself.

Plus considering the screens are namely of concern to the COS then there isn't a specfic mixup with GWR which doesn't run thru the COS if that were to be the case, once outside the COS the screens are NR Native.

 

[PGAT]

All services stop at all stations to Paddington in the COS,
The main changes happens outside the COS, more so on the west.
Heathrow T5s will Skip Acton Main Line, Hanwell and Southall where as Heathrow T4s will stop at all stations on the way to Heathrow.

Reading services will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell usually.

Maidenhead services will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell and Taplow.

There can be slight variations with the Reading services, the 17:46 and 18:12 which are both classed as the fast Reading services:

Will Skip Acton Main Line, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall, Hayes & Harlington, Iver, Langley and Taplow.

From what I know of these are the consistent stopping patterns from origin stations(Shenfield or Abbey Wood):

Reading Fast
Reading Semi-Fast
Maidenhead Semi-Fast
Heathrow T5 Semi Fast
Heathrow T4 Slow
Paddington Slow

Some but not all Reading fasts also stop at Acton Mainline

 

[HSTEd]

Some but not all Reading fasts also stop at Acton Mainline

So there are seven stopping patterns on the Elizabeth Line west of Paddington?

Representing that graphically is verging on the impractical.

Short of just assigning them letters A-F and putting diagrams on the platforms, I've got no idea how to convey this information in the space available.

 

[jon0844]

The trouble with having ‘not calling at’ on the information screen is that passengers such as tourists who don’t speak English might just be looking for the name of the destination they are going to on the screen and miss out the vital first three words. In fact I suspect some skim-reading natives could also miss it.

This is a big problem on most CIS next train indicator displays.

The screens usually show Calling: xxxx, xxxx, xxxx, xxxx (with the calling bit fixed on the matrix so it's very obvious).

The not calling is effectively just a text string appended on the end, and therefore the not calling text scrolls off. If you arrive at the screen at the wrong time, you'll see your destination and assume it IS calling there. If trains are calling at frequent intervals, you may not have time to see it scroll around again.

Apparently fixing that would require major reprogramming work.

It disappoints me when there seems to be insufficient usability tests on these things (I think the displays used by Greater Anglia are even worse). The same for positioning of signs, which we often get wrong at major stations and airports.