How to make the boarding experience at Euston safer and more pleasant

[185]

Moderator note: Split from

Dangerous boarding procedures at Euston

Whilst waiting for my train, the 16:46 from Euston to Crewe, passengers were told not to wait around the platform entrances and were to told to wait in the concourse, by the third party security officers. At around 16:40, the platform was announced and hurds of people immediately started...

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The whole of Euston's buildings should be quickly removed and fully rebuilt, not waiting for HS2 or the Armageddon. Should be two large sets of barriers for 1-10, and one for 11-16+ i.e. until HS2 is built. Urgently should totally demolish all the SSP junk at the ramp tops.

The tight turnaround times don't help. Euston's old platform 17 (the two-faced solution) was a good one. Let passengers down as soon as the train is in on the B side with doors shut, get the passengers off the A-side. Shut A. Clean the train quickly. Ping open the B side doors - very handy for larger trains with (unworkable) 14 minutes spin times.

These sensible ideas will likely fly past someone on a desk and instead come out with some Mandatory Reservations nonsense instead, which belongs solely at Kings X.

As an emergency interim measure, there should be mandatory ticket checks for ALL trains AWC, LO & LNR at Euston, with the platform announced a minimum of 20 minutes before, with ramp bottom gates locked until say 10 mins before, with a steady ticket check when ready and instructed by the train crew / Duty Ops Manager - this would throttle the runners from going crazy.

 

[The Planner]

The whole of Euston's buildings should be quickly removed and fully rebuilt, not waiting for HS2 or the Armageddon. Should be two large sets of barriers for 1-10, and one for 11-16+ ie until HS2 is built. Urgently should totally demolish ALL the SSP junk at the ramp tops.

The tight turnaround times don't help. Euston's old platform 17 (the two-faced solution) was a good one. Let passengers down as soon as the train is in on the B side with doors shut, get the passengers off the A-side. Shut A. Clean the train quickly. Ping open the B side doors - very handy for larger trains with (unworkable) 14 minutes spin times.

These sensible ideas will likely fly past someone on a desk and instead come out with some Mandatory Reservations nonsense instead, which belongs solely at Kings X.

As an emergency interim measure, their should be mandatory ticket checks for ALL trains AWC, LO & LNR at Euston, with the platform announced a minimum of 20 minutes before, with ramp bottom gates locked until say 10 mins before, with a steady ticket check when ready and instructed by the traincrew / Duty Ops Manager - this would throttle the runners from going crazy.

How many extra platforms or reduced services do you want to acheive that? How many Avanti trains are on 14 minute turnrounds?

 

[Bill57p9]

I do wonder whether Euston could take a leaf out of an airport book: Provide differing routes between the platforms and concourse for arrivals Vs departures, announce the platform before boarding and hold passengers on the ramp. That should also reduce congestion on the concourse.

The segregation could either use the old mail space or introduce one way lanes on the ramps.

 

[357]

I do wonder whether Euston could take a leaf out of an airport book: Provide differing routes between the platforms and concourse for arrivals Vs departures, announce the platform before boarding and hold passengers on the ramp. That should also reduce congestion on the concourse.

The segregation could either use the old mail space or introduce one way lanes on the ramps.

In the same way that many London Underground stations do!

 

[alex_alexs28]

In my opinion, the only thing that can be done to ease this pain, is to actually build the HS2 all the way into London Euston. Any financial cost it will be for sure recovered with the time, as there is high demand and it will be even more once it is built. This should bring a lot more capacity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't expect this to last too long before the accessibility groups get it (rightfully) stomped out. Can't think of any good reason for it to not be shown on the board at the same time as it is announced.

Yes, this is downright stupid. The answers are staring them in the face, and people blocking the tunnel is a new thing since the departure boards were moved. Put them back and it will stop.

 

[Krokodil]

In my opinion, the only thing that can be done to ease this pain, is to actually build the HS2 all the way into London Euston. Any financial cost it will be for sure recovered with the time, as there is high demand and it will be even more once it is built. This should bring a lot more capacity.

Need to get the design of the station right first time too. The full number of platforms for a start, no cutbacks. Could do with a circulation deck across all lines, adjacent to Phoenix Road which would better serve the northern set when HS2 is running 2x200m trains and allows a convenient walking route to/from St Pancras. Retail space should only be allowed if it doesn't obstruct congested areas.

 

[Mikey C]

Surely all they need to do is allow passengers onto the platforms earlier? The Euston Avanti platforms have plenty of space for people to wait for their trains, and next to the correct carriage for their seat reservation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely all they need to do is allow passengers onto the platforms earlier? The Euston Avanti platforms have plenty of space for people to wait for their trains, and next to the correct carriage for their seat reservation.

Display LNR platforms at all times, that is don't suppress at all. Same for LO as that's almost never anything other than 9 or 10. For Avanti make getting reservations at the last minute easier
as per LNER and call them as soon as they've tipped out and doors locked. Finally, reinstate the old departure board.

 

[oversteer]

Put the display screen back by the underground gatelines so 8-11 passengers can go direct to platforms

Take away the walls around the tube escalator lobby so you can exit straight to the concourse

Allow passengers to transfer between platforms at the buffer ends in times of disruption

 

[island]

Avanti departure platforms should be announced earlier with queues down the ramps to the platforms. That will take some pax off the concourse and reduce crowding, without them getting in the way of arriving pax who can go up a different lane.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avanti departure platforms should be announced earlier with queues down the ramps to the platforms. That will take some pax off the concourse and reduce crowding, without them getting in the way of arriving pax who can go up a different lane.

Agreed. With work done to reinforce the ramps if necessary for this purpose (I seem to recall someone saying they now have their safe maximum loading clearly displayed?)

The main ramps (4-7 and 12-15) should be changed around so that there are four queueing areas and one exit area with a one-way "valve door" in the middle as found at airports. The gates for boarding would then be automatically opened when something (LNR or Avanti) comes up on the board. You could probably also do that on 1-3 rather than the pointless gateline that isn't properly used as one. 16 probably no point, could that perhaps just be dedicated to LNR and not suppressed?

 

[Meerkat]

What is under the ramps - can they be propped to deal with the weight restriction?

 

[popeter45]

if Euston was fully rebuilt then the platforms should be rised above the waiting area akin to Eurostar platforms
could even allow layering so 16 400m WCML platforms above and 16 400m HS2 platforms below

 

[Bletchleyite]

if Euston was fully rebuilt then the platforms should be rised above the waiting area akin to Eurostar platforms
could even allow layering so 16 400m WCML platforms above and 16 400m HS2 platforms below

HS2 platforms will be at a different height, but that's lower rather than higher!

 

[popeter45]

HS2 platforms will be at a different height, but that's lower rather than higher!

yes thats what im saying, HS2 platforms underground like whats planned now but directly below raised WCML platforms with a concourse between at ground level

 

[Krokodil]

At the current rate we'll be lucky to have HS2 services there at all.

 

[The Planner]

if Euston was fully rebuilt then the platforms should be rised above the waiting area akin to Eurostar platforms
could even allow layering so 16 400m WCML platforms above and 16 400m HS2 platforms below

It would be cheaper to lower the station.

 

[SynthD]

Can the public area upstairs extend further into the parcels area?

 

[vuzzeho]

I think HS2 or not, Euston needs a rebuilding. Can't services be diverted (or terminate early and other links used) until the basic station is done?

 

[SynthD]

I think HS2 or not, Euston needs a rebuilding. Can't services be diverted (or terminate early and other links used) until the basic station is done?

It’s harder to do that with a few platforms lost to HS2. The long HS2 trains will make it much easier to close parts of the old station for the rebuild.

 

[Bletchleyite]

(From the non speculative thread)

Being able to easily switch reserved seats online would help. I travel with people regularly and we all book our own tickets so never end up together, so we contribute to the problem by making a beeline for an unreserved table. If we could just access an Avanti/Industry run portal to enter out details and swap them for a set of seats together it'd be beneficial.

For all I am against the "fake compulsory reservations" nonsense, LNER have this down to a tee, better than the European compulsory reservation operators (e.g. SNCF don't offer seat selection, you get what you're given, and PKP only offer it on a very rudimentary basis of being able to look at a plan and request a given seat number if it's free). You can reserve, change one or cancel it from any of their sales points, including seat selection.

I am very much of the view that if Avanti offered this same facility the "scrum" would be reduced because fewer people would rush to the train, as many of the flexible ticket holders would just grab a reservation to their liking.

 

[Trackman]

Surely all they need to do is allow passengers onto the platforms earlier? The Euston Avanti platforms have plenty of space for people to wait for their trains, and next to the correct carriage for their seat reservation.

There is no space, it's a simple as that. Watch what happens when you get off an Avanti service, the adjoining platform space is made up with people trying to leave the station. Also, Euston has form at last minute platform alterations before it's announced officially.

if Euston was fully rebuilt ..

If only...

 

[Mikey C]

There is no space, it's a simple as that. Watch what happens when you get off an Avanti service, the adjoining platform space is made up with people trying to leave the station. Also, Euston has form at last minute platform alterations before it's announced officially.

Euston's platforms are surely the widest of all the London terminuses?

 

[The Planner]

Euston's platforms are surely the widest of all the London terminuses?

And people spread out and use the space.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So much goes into trying that the ORR has sent improvement notices? The concourse capacity actually lends itself to the argument that passengers should be shifted to waiting at a platform. I believe the Euston situation is purely down to a desire to keep the revenue block in place, so once again the safety of passengers is being put at risk over profits when alternatives have been available for a long time.

It's been a problem since long before revenue blocks were the norm at Euston. Though given that they are considered necessary, finding another way to do them (such as a single gateline under the old departure board) might be a benefit.

It also doesn't explain why platforms are suppressed for LNR services, as other than on P8-11 and very occasional revenue blitzes there are no boarding controls on these at all. Indeed, they're the bane of Avanti's life because they have to leave the other gates open for them and people just go past on the LNR side and board the Avanti train all the time.

 

[AY1975]

I do wonder whether Euston could take a leaf out of an airport book: Provide differing routes between the platforms and concourse for arrivals Vs departures, announce the platform before boarding and hold passengers on the ramp. That should also reduce congestion on the concourse.

The segregation could either use the old mail space or introduce one way lanes on the ramps.

And take a leaf out of the BR era: as I recall at least in the late 1980s and early '90s, when the ticket barriers were moved from the tops to the bottoms of the slopes on most platforms, that is pretty much how it was done for InterCity trains at Euston. The train would arrive, the disembarking passengers (whose tickets had usually been collected on-board by the guard/Senior Conductor, or checked and returned in the case of season tickets, rovers or tickets for journeys continuing beyond London) would come straight off the platform and up the slope, and the departure platform would already be advertised before boarding so the departing passengers would form a queue down the ramp (which had a fence separating the arrival and departure lane). There they would usually have their tickets checked while they waited to board, and then be held on the ramp, then when the train was ready for boarding the doors at the platform entrance would be opened and the passengers admitted.

That, of course, was in the days when only the London Underground (and the Tyne & Wear Metro and the Glasgow Subway) had automatic ticket gates or turnstiles, and manual ticket checks at barriers and/or on-train were the norm on BR. But these days manual rather than automated ticket checks before boarding are presumably considered too low-tech.

 

[occone]

I thought last night they could introduce boarding groups, similar to how it's done at an airport where there's a lot of people and a single pinch point.

Let's assume there are three boarding groups:

A:
reserved seats, London side. This would get first class ticket holders on first (as that usually is on the London side).

B:
reserved seats, country side. Split the train in the middle and specify coach numbers for groups A and B.

C:
unreserved, and last minute.


Let's look at enforcement:

Ticket barriers could be installed, but even if done manually it's possible to check for a seat reservation and in which end of the train. This works for etickets and paper ones.

Ideally Avanti would (maybe they do?) be able to provide seat reservations up to 30 mins before departure, so if you show up on good time you can get on early.


The process of announcing trains:

Announce boarding for reservations only and state the coach letters, eventually printing boarding groups on tickets from London. You may have two tickets - a ticket and a reservation, so only print the boarding group on reservations.

Announcements start 10 mins before the regular boarding time is announced. Give A and B five minutes between them, which should get most people down the ramp before the next batch come.


I'm sure there's flaws with this idea (otherwise they'd already be doing it!) but I'm interested to see if this could work to some degree.