Worcestershire Parkway 5th Platform?

[Jason White]

As a regular user of Worcestershire Parkway I've often wondered when the station was built, why was no provision given to building a 5th platform on the Up Abbotswood Curve? ( Platform 4 is reserved in case the upper level is dual tracked in the future). Bi- directional signalling could easily be installed on the curve with access to the platform using existing infrastructure. The platform could be connected to the main station building by means of a raised 400 metre footbridge. This would enable GWR'S local Shrub Hill to Bristol services and the Worcester to Paddington via Swindon services and any diverted CrossCountry services to call at Worcestershire Parkway without the need for replacement road transport. What do people think?

 

[mangyiscute]

I guess it depends on whether people think this is too far for a) a bridge or whatever to be built, considering how much something like that may cost, and b) whether passengers would not expect a 400m walk between connecting trains - for passengers with limited mobility this could be an issue. I'm not sure what the furthest connection distances are at current stations, and whether this exceeds that. It would mean the minimum connection time at the station would have to be increased to perhaps about 10 minutes, meaning some connections would then not be officially valid - perhaps by making this new platform a brand new station you could get around that but then that starts to get very confusing for passengers.
Another similar one I'd suggest is a platform on the Heart of Wessex line near Yeovil Junction, so then that station becomes an actual junction for passengers - passengers can then get to Pen Mill easily from the London to Exeter trains rather than being limited to an out of town station, and also it would improve connections down towards Weymouth too.

 

[edwin_m]

400m is a bit far to expect people to walk. It would need as a minimum something for people with restricted mobility, such as a golf buggy shuttle operated by station staff, and probably something for the able-bodied too.

Would the signalling allow a train to stop on this curve without locking up one or other of the junctions?

 

[Halish Railway]

It seems like the only additional connectivity that such a platform would provide would be Bristol. The Midland Rail Hub scheme or whatever we’re calling it today envisages a new Birmingham Moor Street to Bristol service using one of the Bordesley chords which would call at Worcestershire Parkway, as well as Bromsgrove.

The alternative would be the solution used at Shipley prior to the construction of platforms 1 and 2 where Leeds to Skipton services would reverse at Shipley South Jn, with the guard on the opposite cab would bell the driver to reverse.

 

[The Planner]

400m is a bit far to expect people to walk. It would need as a minimum something for people with restricted mobility, such as a golf buggy shuttle operated by station staff, and probably something for the able-bodied too.

Would the signalling allow a train to stop on this curve without locking up one or other of the junctions?

As long as its before the protecting signal you would be fine. Not sure why its only one platform on the up though, a down platform would be cheaper than knackering it all up with bi-di

 

[Rhydgaled]

400m is a bit far to expect people to walk. It would need as a minimum something for people with restricted mobility, such as a golf buggy shuttle operated by station staff, and probably something for the able-bodied too.

If you arrive on platform 13 or 14 at Manchester Piccadilly and have a reserved seat in the front of a long train departing from platform 1 you could find yourself with over 400m between trains. Could the solution employed for access to platforms 13 and 14 (a step-free (and mostly horrizontal) escalator type thing - I think the only other places I've seen them are airport terminals) address the issue at other stations with a long walk between platforms?

As for Worcestershire Parkway, I think if you wanted to allow future expansion to 6 platforms (two on each of the three sides of the triangle) the existing three platforms wouldn't have been built where they are. Either the Cotswolds line platform should have been west of the Birmingham-Bristol line or the Birmingham-Bristol platforms should have been built south from the Cotswolds line, in either case this would be so that the golf buggy and/or horrizontal escalator thingy could run along the back of one of the platforms.

Personally though, I think the whole North East - South West corridor needs looking at again (along with much of the GB transport network) in the contexts of decarbonisation and (for want of a better phrase) 'leveling up'. For example, HS2 East (yes, I know most of HS2 is in disarray now) always looked like a wasted opportunity to me. If the Birmingham-Bristol-Plymouth line had been electrified years ago as BR wanted, and instead of buffers the west end of HS2's Curzon Street was somehow connected into it, HS2 classic-compatibles could replace several XC services through New Street.

 

[mangyiscute]

If you arrive on platform 13 or 14 at Manchester Piccadilly and have a reserved seat in the front of a long train departing from platform 1 you could find yourself with over 400m between trains. Could the solution employed for access to platforms 13 and 14 (a step-free (and mostly horrizontal) escalator type thing - I think the only other places I've seen them are airport terminals) address the issue at other stations with a long walk between platforms?

You also have them on the tube, iirc there's one to the jubilee line at waterloo since it's quite a long walk from the other lines, and also one to the waterloo & city line at Bank which is also slightly sloped. However, these examples are pretty much in constant use by tonnes of passengers each day, unfortunately Worcestershire Parkway just doesn't have the demand to justify that sort of infrastructure investment - a staff operated buggy is probably the best you'd get

 

[zwk500]

I don't see what this platform is really adding other than a couple more trains for a park and ride, but in a far less convenient place than just building the 4th platform in the intended place. Passengers on trains going into Worcester can change onto the same trains at Shrub Hill they would otherwise be catching at Parkway (connection timings notwithstanding).

 

[mangyiscute]

I don't see what this platform is really adding other than a couple more trains for a park and ride, but in a far less convenient place than just building the 4th platform in the intended place. Passengers on trains going into Worcester can change onto the same trains at Shrub Hill they would otherwise be catching at Parkway (connection timings notwithstanding).

The main thing would be direct services to bristol, which is a big pull - changing at Cheltenham isn't too bad for these, and the ideal solution would be to stop perhaps the Manchester to Bristol services at Worcestershire Parkway, but this is a way to achieve that goal.

 

[zwk500]

The main thing would be direct services to bristol, which is a big pull - changing at Cheltenham isn't too bad for these, and the ideal solution would be to stop perhaps the Manchester to Bristol services at Worcestershire Parkway, but this is a way to achieve that goal.

But who's changing onto these direct services to Bristol? People at the Oxford end of the Cotswold line can change at Didcot far more conveniently than WOP. People at the Worcester end of the Cotswold Line can change at Shrub Hill for any service that would use the chord (subject to timings).

 

[mangyiscute]

But who's changing onto these direct services to Bristol? People at the Oxford end of the Cotswold line can change at Didcot far more conveniently than WOP. People at the Worcester end of the Cotswold Line can change at Shrub Hill for any service that would use the chord (subject to timings).

I'm imagining people using is as a parkway station, so they drive there from their homes in/near Worcester, park and then head into Bristol - i'm sure parking at Shrub Hill or Foregate St is not at all easy

 

[zwk500]

I'm imagining people using is as a parkway station, so they drive there from their homes in/near Worcester, park and then head into Bristol - i'm sure parking at Shrub Hill or Foregate St is not at all easy

But they can drive to WOP today and get on a much faster XC service than the GWR service they'd pick up on the chord.

 

[mangyiscute]

But they can drive to WOP today and get on a much faster XC service than the GWR service they'd pick up on the chord.

Not to Bristol, those ones don't stop at WOP, only the Cardiff train does, so it requires a change. As I said, ideally, at least some of the fast XC services would stop at WOP, providing fast service to not just Bristol but also more Birmingham trains plus access to the North East.
And yes, I know that changing trains is not much hassle, especially say at Cheltenham where it is same platform, but it does lengthen the journey time and also just generally make it less likely that people will choose the train, cause people love direct services.

 

[zwk500]

Not to Bristol, those ones don't stop at WOP, only the Cardiff train does, so it requires a change. As I said, ideally, at least some of the fast XC services would stop at WOP, providing fast service to not just Bristol but also more Birmingham trains plus access to the North East.

Fair point, I've been on a Bristol-York train that stopped at WOP but now you mention it I remember checking and seeing it wasn't a booked stop so must have been an SSO. Alternating stops between Bristols and Cardiffs would seem to be easier and more efficient than building a new platform a quarter mile away.

And yes, I know that changing trains is not much hassle, especially say at Cheltenham where it is same platform, but it does lengthen the journey time and also just generally make it less likely that people will choose the train, cause people love direct services.

Totally agree that an interchange is an additional put-off from a direct train, I'm just not convinced that having a platform halfway back to Worcester is going to really compensate.

 

[Topological]

If they could get more capacity on the CrossCountry then stopping one of the two trains there would make sense. Presumably the Manchester rather than the North East one. Either way, you get odd times from Birmingham because the Cardiff is xx30, the ex North East xx12 and the ex Manchester xx42 (roughly).

However, the point is journeys towards Bristol, which the Cardiff does not provide. Therefore an odd pattern from Birmingham is a small issue.

 

[jimm]

As a regular user of Worcestershire Parkway I've often wondered when the station was built, why was no provision given to building a 5th platform on the Up Abbotswood Curve? ( Platform 4 is reserved in case the upper level is dual tracked in the future). Bi- directional signalling could easily be installed on the curve with access to the platform using existing infrastructure. The platform could be connected to the main station building by means of a raised 400 metre footbridge. This would enable GWR'S local Shrub Hill to Bristol services and the Worcester to Paddington via Swindon services and any diverted CrossCountry services to call at Worcestershire Parkway without the need for replacement road transport. What do people think?

As with almost every situation regarding XC services, there is a much simpler solution - providing trains with many more seats, so that calls could be made by trains between Bristol and Birmingham on the existing full-length main line platforms at Worcestershire Parkway without spending lots of money building two platforms several fields away from the station, on a curved chard line.

Why do I say two platforms? Because, living in Worcester, you really ought to be aware of the issues around signalling in the city. The Abbotswood curve is partly controlled by Norton junction's mechanical signal box and partly by Gloucester's elderly electronic set-up - so there is nothing 'easy' about doing anything involving signals there, including installing bi-directional signals.

There is one train a day each way on weekdays between Worcester and Paddington via Swindon - so being able to use those is not much of a selling point compared with the number of London trains calling at the Cotswold Line platform, is it? And if people do want to go to Bristol, it will always be much quicker to change on/off the XC Cardiff route trains at Cheltenham, than use the GWR Worcester-Bristol stoppers, whether getting on a train st Shrub Hill or Parkway.

 

[edwin_m]

And if people do want to go to Bristol, it will always be much quicker to change on/off the XC Cardiff route trains at Cheltenham, than use the GWR Worcester-Bristol stoppers, whether getting on a train st Shrub Hill or Parkway.

It's also possible to change at Cheltenham off the stopper, onto a following XC service that overtakes it when it goes into Gloucester (and similarly northbound). On a quick check it's only a couple of minutes slower than going from Parkway.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

But who's changing onto these direct services to Bristol? People at the Oxford end of the Cotswold line can change at Didcot far more conveniently than WOP. People at the Worcester end of the Cotswold Line can change at Shrub Hill for any service that would use the chord (subject to timings).

When I'm travelling from Charlbury to Bristol, I do usually go via one of the Worcester stations - either Parkway or, if the timings work, Shrub Hill. It's cheaper and the journey time isn't that much different.

That said, the balance might have tilted back towards Didcot now that the up Cotswolds services have gained a Didcot stop.

 

[mangyiscute]

That said, the balance might have tilted back towards Didcot now that the up Cotswolds services have gained a Didcot stop.

Although it looks like that train now requires a change at Didcot onto the Cardiff train then change at Swindon or Bristol Parkway onto the Bristol train, so it's still two changes. Having said that, I am happy the Cardiff trains seem to have all picked up Didcot stops, which is very useful since Didcot now has direct links to both Bristol and South Wales, except then going back towards London it is still two bristol trains and no south wales trains per hour. And then you have the weirdness of the Didcot stop on the Oxford train being the Costwold line service towards London and then the Oxford terminator towards Oxford (although that makes sense to avoid having the turbo sitting at Didcot for ages).