Purchased incorrect ticket

[privateuser]

I boarded a train from Burton-on-Trent to Birmingham and then another to Wolverhampton with a railway discount that I am I not eligible for as I do not have a railcard. For some reason it was already applied to my account so I just went ahead and purchased thinking that I was eligible when I wasn’t. (I was just looking at the (16-25) age category which I fall under. Silly of me I know.


I was stopped by a Revenue protection officer in Wolverhampton who questioned why I purchased the incorrect ticket and I explained how the discount somehow was already applied on my account and I just went ahead and purchased it as I was in a rush.


He then took a picture of my ID and submitted a report on his tablet which i signed at the end that explains his version of events and mine. He said that a letter will come through the post in 1-2 months and that I could be issued with a fine, or they could get a data access request to view my Trainline account to see if this has been a regular occurrence. To be clear this was a one off journey as I don’t use the train often at the moment.


I’m totally unsure if a railway discount was applied on other journeys I’ve made in the past on my Trainline account as the receipts on my account just show as adult. But I’ve made a total of 6 journeys (4 last year) and 2 this year. The two being yesterday which is the incident I’m explaining currently. Having reviewed my emails, I don't believe a railcard discount was applied to journeys in the past.


I also offered to pay the difference right there but he said he’d let me go as the report was submitted already. I did get a reciept which shows details, I’m wondering if I should contact them. I have attached a photo which shows the tickets I purchased. I used split save from Burton to Wolverhampton but because there was a change, I then bought another ticket from Birmingham to Wolverhampton as I wasn't sure if the first ticket covered the entire journey.


I am going to have sleepless nights and I really need advice on what to do if anything? And when the letter arrives, do they ask to pay the fees straight away or will I be asked for my version of events (because I already gave my version of events which the officer took note of in the report).

Any help is appreciated.


Update DECEMBER 2023

I have now received a letter.

 

[randyrippley]

You purchased two tickets for the same journey Birmingham-Wolverhampton
Did both show the card discount?
Did you show both tickets to the guard/inspector?
Where and how did you buy the tickets?

 

[privateuser]

You purchased two tickets for the same journey Birmingham-Wolverhampton
Did both show the card discount?
Did you show both tickets to the guard/inspector?
Where and how did you buy the tickets?

I started from Burton-on-trent buying a split save ticket (2) to Wolverhampton, but stopped at Birmingham New Street and bought another ticket to Wolverhampton as I wasn't sure if it would cover the full journey.

Yes both showed the discount and I did show both tickets to the inspector, although I don't think he was in a good mood when I was talking to him.

I purchased e-tickets using the Trainline app.

 

[30907]

Regarding your previous journeys, you may be able to check whether a Railcard discount was applied by selecting the same route, as current fares won't be very much more than last year. The exception is if you had an Advance ticket, as these vary a lot more.

There's little you can do otherwise until the letter arrives; please then ask for advice about your reply if you wish.

PS. Whoever selected the 16-25 Railcard on the App had to make two specific choices to do so.

 

[privateuser]

Regarding your previous journeys, you may be able to check whether a Railcard discount was applied by selecting the same route, as current fares won't be very much more than last year. The exception is if you had an Advance ticket, as these vary a lot more.

There's little you can do otherwise until the letter arrives; please then ask for advice about your reply if you wish.

PS. Whoever selected the 16-25 Railcard on the App had to make two specific choices to do so.

The past journeys were advanced I believe and on email it doesn't say anything about railcard discount applied so I assume for past journeys It was the correct ticket.

I'm just wondering what the outcome may be depending on this minor issue, I'm guessing they don't take it lightly and will just think I was trying to avoid paying the correct amount.

Unsure on your last statement - but to clarify only I use the app and these tickets had the discount applied to already somehow.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you know which train company you are dealing with over this?

As for what will happen next the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf will send you a letter. The letter will typically takes a few weeks to arrive and will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they wish to.

As for previous journeys the train company will search your online purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter about previous journeys. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one. Settlements have to be paid by the due date and cannot be paid in instalments.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you. In the meantime try and put the matter to the back of you mind and get on with your life.

 

[privateuser]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you know which train company you are dealing with over this?

As for what will happen next the train company or an investigation company acting on their behalf will send you a letter. The letter will typically takes a few weeks to arrive and will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they wish to.

As for previous journeys the train company will search your online purchase history and you will need to be careful how you reply to the letter about previous journeys. You should answer the questions they ask for truthfully but you are not required to incriminate yourself either.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one. Settlements have to be paid by the due date and cannot be paid in instalments.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you. In the meantime try and put the matter to the back of you mind and get on with your life.

Thank you so much for getting back to me. I did receive a slip (can show if needed) that states 'West Midlands Trains Revenue Protection Department Authority to Travel following travel irregularity. It has the inspector and notice number. So that's the train company.

I also recall the inspector saying that if you are extremely lucky they won't fine you, but I refused to believe that would be the case after scrolling through forums here. The inspector also said that I would only get sent to court if I was to not pay the fine which is obviously understandable. My concern is that, if they decide to take me to magistrates court already, then does that mean it will be on my criminal record?

I should certainly just try and forget about it for now since there's nothing I can do. I would hope to receive the letter and get this matter closed this year, as I am working in the education industry and they do an enhanced DBS check.

 

[John R]

Provided you follow what @Hadders has set out when you get the letter then I think it's highly likely that you will be able to negotiate an out of court settlement, based on cases we've seen here

 

[30907]

My concern is that, if they decide to take me to magistrates court already, then does that mean it will be on my criminal record?

Depends on the charge, but usually it will be for a "non-recordable" offence under the Byelaws.

I should certainly just try and forget about it for now since there's nothing I can do. I would hope to receive the letter and get this matter closed this year, as I am working in the education industry and they do an enhanced DBS check.

Provided you don't try to conceal any conviction, it is unlikely to be of great concern to your employer even if it shows on the DBS.

 

[privateuser]

Provided you follow what @Hadders has set out when you get the letter then I think it's highly likely that you will be able to negotiate an out of court settlement, based on cases we've seen her.

Does the letter always ask for your side of the story, or can it instantly be decided already with a fine/court since the inspector already reported my side of the story on his tablet on the day of the incident?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2023 ==

Depends on the charge, but usually it will be for a "non-recordable" offence under the Byelaws.

Provided you don't try to conceal any conviction, it is unlikely to be of great concern to your employer even if it shows on the DBS.

Can it really take months for the letter to arrive?

When does a non-recordable offence get removed from the DBS?

 

[AlterEgo]

Does the letter always ask for your side of the story

Yes.

, or can it instantly be decided already with a fine/court since the inspector already reported my side of the story on his tablet on the day of the incident?

They will invariably want to hear your side of the story.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Nov 2023 ==


Can it really take months for the letter to arrive?

Yes. Not often, but it can happen. They have up to six months to decide to prosecute anyway.

When does a non-recordable offence get removed from the DBS?

A non-recordable offence won't appear on a Standard DBS and will only appear on Enhanced DBS checks at the reviewing officer's discretion. It would be very rare for such a conviction to be disclosed on an Enhanced DBS.

 

[privateuser]

Yes.


They will invariably want to hear your side of the story.


Yes. Not often, but it can happen. They have up to six months to decide to prosecute anyway.


A non-recordable offence won't appear on a Standard DBS and will only appear on Enhanced DBS checks at the reviewing officer's discretion. It would be very rare for such a conviction to be disclosed on an Enhanced DBS.

Thank you for the swift replies. Much appreciated.

What way do you reply to them? Would I send them a letter back, or can there be other methods to communicate my side of the story?

And I'm guessing once you have given your side of the story, it won't take as long for them to get back to you?

 

[MotCO]

Provided you don't try to conceal any conviction, it is unlikely to be of great concern to your employer even if it shows on the DBS.

To the OP: If you get a conviction, you will need to proactively tell your employer (and college possibly). Do not let them find out, since this will be much worse for you - the concealment is a worse offence than the actual offence.

What way do you reply to them? Would I send them a letter back, or can there be other methods to communicate my side of the story?

There may be an email option. If you use mail, send it 'Signed For' at a Post Office.

The other thing is to make sure that you receive mail if you change address (e.g. if you are currently at university). Setting up a Mail Redirection should cover this.

 

[privateuser]

To the OP: If you get a conviction, you will need to proactively tell your employer (and college possibly). Do not let them find out, since this will be much worse for you - the concealment is a worse offence than the actual offence.


There may be an email option. If you use mail, send it 'Signed For' at a Post Office.

The other thing is to make sure that you receive mail if you change address (e.g. if you are currently at university). Setting up a Mail Redirection should cover this.

Yeah, hopefully it doesn't reach that as I'm relatively new to the job but understood thanks.

 

[Hadders]

West Midlands Railway are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to dealing with this sort of thing. They will want to know your side of the story before deciding what to do but if you follow what I said above you should be able to decure a favourable outcome.

 

[privateuser]

West Midlands Railway are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to dealing with this sort of thing. They will want to know your side of the story before deciding what to do but if you follow what I said above you should be able to decure a favourable outcome.

That's good to hear. I'll certainly keep the forum updated with everything.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2023 ==

West Midlands Railway are one of the more pragmatic companies when it comes to dealing with this sort of thing. They will want to know your side of the story before deciding what to do but if you follow what I said above you should be able to decure a favourable outcome.

Do you think it's worth buying a railcard? Reason I haven't already is because I hardly travel via train but if it helps in this case I don't mind. Or on the other hand, does it make me look more guilty?

 

[Hadders]

That's good to hear. I'll certainly keep the forum updated with everything.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2023 ==



Do you think it's worth buying a railcard? Reason I haven't already is because I hardly travel via train but if it helps in this case I don't mind. Or on the other hand, does it make me look more guilty?

If you travel by train regularly then buy a railcard. If you don't travel regularly then I wouldn't bother.

 

[privateuser]

Update I have now received a letter as uploaded on my thread. I have posted my draft, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you.

Dear West Midlands Railway,



I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your letter. Firstly, I would like to offer my deepest apologies for purchasing the in-correct ticket for the incident that occurred on 06/11/23. I now understand the extreme importance of double checking that the ticket I purchase must be one that I am eligible for. I will strictly ensure to always follow the rules and regulations of the railway to avoid this unintentional error again.



I have taken steps to ensure this won’t happen again by always displaying a valid ticket and seek to learn from my error of judgement. I will ensure to remove any discount that I am not entitled to. I will lease with inspectors if I am in doubt or have any concerns regarding the ticket I purchase in the future.



I am determined to resolve this matter amicably and without the need for further action. I would like to do this by offering to reimburse the outstanding fare as well as the administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. I will make the payment promptly.



I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter swiftly. I now understand the gravity of my actions and I take full responsibility for it. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[WesternLancer]

Update I have now received a letter as uploaded on my thread. I have posted my draft, I would greatly appreciate any help. Thank you.

Dear West Midlands Railway,



I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your letter. Firstly, I would like to offer my deepest apologies for purchasing the in-correct ticket for the incident that occurred on 06/11/23. I now understand the extreme importance of double checking that the ticket I purchase must be one that I am eligible for. I will strictly ensure to always follow the rules and regulations of the railway to avoid this unintentional error again.



I have taken steps to ensure this won’t happen again by always displaying a valid ticket and seek to learn from my error of judgement. I will ensure to remove any discount that I am not entitled to. I will lease with inspectors if I am in doubt or have any concerns regarding the ticket I purchase in the future.



I am determined to resolve this matter amicably and without the need for further action. I would like to do this by offering to reimburse the outstanding fare as well as the administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. I will make the payment promptly.



I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter swiftly. I now understand the gravity of my actions and I take full responsibility for it. Thank you for your understanding.

Must be a typo here I think:

I will lease with inspectors

Do you mean 'liaise' perhaps? Though I would say a better /simpler phrase is preferable anyway - eg 'I will check with railway staff if I am in doubt or have....'

 

[privateuser]

Must be a typo here I think:



Do you mean 'liaise' perhaps? Though I would say a better /simpler phrase is preferable anyway - eg 'I will check with railway staff if I am in doubt or have....'

Thank you for spotting that.

 

[Haywain]

I am determined to resolve this matter amicably and without the need for further action. I would like to do this by offering to reimburse the outstanding fare as well as the administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. I will make the payment promptly.

You need to be clearly asking that they give you the opportunity to settle the matter - it's very much their choice and your determination counts for nothing.

 

[spag23]

by always displaying a valid ticket and seek to learn from my error of judgement.

"displaying" doesn't quite make sense. I'd suggest "having" or "buying".
And as the application of the discount was a mystery to the OP, there was "no error of judgement"; but a mistake or oversight.
"Incorrect" has no hyphen.

 

[privateuser]

You need to be clearly asking that they give you the opportunity to settle the matter - it's very much their choice and your determination counts for nothing.

Thank you. Point noted. Reworded to: I would very much appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter amicably...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2023 ==

"displaying" doesn't quite make sense. I'd suggest "having" or "buying".
And as the application of the discount was a mystery to the OP, there was "no error of judgement"; but a mistake or oversight.
"Incorrect" has no hyphen.

Changed to having.
Replaced no error of judgement with mistake.
Removed hyphen from incorrect.

Thank you for your input : )

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2023 ==

I'm curious if I should state that I am not a frequent traveller whatsoever?

 

[John R]

I’m not sure amicably is quite the word you are looking for. Maybe just drop that and the following “and”?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2023 ==

Also, the last sentence of the first paragraph is a bit OTT and clunky.

I would just add “and will ensure I do so in future”.

 

[privateuser]

I’m not sure amicably is quite the word you are looking for. Maybe just drop that and the following “and”?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2023 ==

Also, the last sentence of the first paragraph is a bit OTT and clunky.

I would just add “and will ensure I do so in future”.

Thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2023 ==

Current draft, please suggest improvements if you have any thank you

Dear West Midlands Railway,



I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your letter. Firstly, I would like to offer my deepest apologies for purchasing the incorrect ticket for the incident that occurred on 06/11/23. I now understand the extreme importance of double checking that the ticket I purchase must be one that I am eligible for and will ensure I do so in future.



I have taken steps to ensure this won’t happen again by always having a valid ticket and seek to learn from my mistake. I will ensure to remove any discount that I am not entitled to. I will check with railway staff if I am in doubt or have any concerns regarding the ticket I purchase in the future.



I would very much appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter without the need for further action. I would like to do this by offering to reimburse the outstanding fare as well as the administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. I will make the payment promptly.



I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter swiftly. I now understand the gravity of my actions and I take full responsibility for it. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2023 ==

Current draft, please suggest improvements if you have any thank you

Dear West Midlands Railway,



I am writing to acknowledge receipt of your letter. Firstly, I would like to offer my deepest apologies for purchasing the incorrect ticket for the incident that occurred on 06/11/23. I now understand the extreme importance of double checking that the ticket I purchase must be one that I am eligible for and will ensure I do so in future.



I have taken steps to ensure this won’t happen again by always having a valid ticket and seek to learn from my mistake. I will ensure to remove any discount that I am not entitled to. I will check with railway staff if I am in doubt or have any concerns regarding the ticket I purchase in the future.



I would very much appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter without the need for further action. I would like to do this by offering to reimburse the outstanding fare as well as the administrative costs incurred in dealing with this matter. I will make the payment promptly.



I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused and I hope that we can resolve this matter swiftly. I now understand the gravity of my actions and I take full responsibility for it. Thank you for your understanding.

Now looks good to me.

Good luck with it.

 

[privateuser]

Will be posting off tomorrow. Any further improvements?

Thanks to everyone who has contributed. Much appreciated and I will keep you all updated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2023 ==

@Hadders

 

[Hadders]

Looks ok to me. Please let us know how you get on.

 

[privateuser]

Update - Response from West Midlands Trains

 

[Haywain]

Well, they've given you the chance to settle the matter and, although it's perhaps a touch on the high side, I'd recommend you pay the amount requested.