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I read recently of the idea of opening a bay platform between platforms 6 and 8 on the north east side of Sheffield. That would mean fewer conflicts for a Lincoln service. I don't know if there'd be an issue with the rather nice little cottage like buildings on that platform though..
Most times when I arrive at Sheffield from the north, on a terminating northern service, it sits waiting for another service to depart from a bay platform. That delay likely also impacts on through services sitting behind us. One more platform could go a long way.
As it happens, coming from the south is also usually held up (my luck?)..
I saw this on a recent thread and wondered if this could be an option.
Alternatively, and maybe an easier option- could there be a similar arrangement on P6 to Platform 1B where one service waits and another can bypass it to wait at the southern end of 6?
There used to be a "bay" (in the form of a loop) at the north end of 8, so there's space on the ground clear of the retaining wall to restore what was once there.
I saw this on a recent thread and wondered if this could be an option.
Alternatively, and maybe an easier option- could there be a similar arrangement on P6 to Platform 1B where one service waits and another can bypass it to wait at the southern end of 6?
There's certainly room for a north facing bay between 6&8(subject to the building mentioned being demolished) the station roof canopy looks as though there was one planned, but never materialised.
Another thing that be massively beneficial would be altering the single lead points in & out of 3 & 4, so to enable arivals/departures into each bay at the same time.
Needs re-signalling so they aren't relying on shunt signals and special instructions at the north end to depart Sheffield. As they were when that freight left the rails a couple of years ago departing the north end of Platform 1.
That, would be ideal. I think the main issues really lie with the northern and southern approaches though. The station itself seems to have a decent amount of platform capacity.
That, would be ideal. I think the main issues really lie with the northern and southern approaches though. The station itself seems to have a decent amount of platform capacity.
I've posted before that the incoming Lincoln services always get held coming into Sheffield in the tunnels after coming down off Nunnery (and quite often also at Nunnery), you see the outogoing northbound service pass you and then in you go. Anythiing to relieve that would be good, though I have no idea whether a Platform 7 North would help. Also, in the halcyon days of the semi-fasts, the time saved getting to Sheffield was always negated by the wait so it would be good to have this if they ever come back (wishful thinking I know!).
Yes, the northbound and southbound approaches to Sheffield are limited, by deep cuttings/tunnels to the north and road bridges to the south, would cost a bomb to sort.
There is a kink at the north end of P8, which AIUI used to be P8 with P9 being the south of current P8 which could bypass P8.
Reinstating the point work link between the two would take space, but you could square off the kink and put the old P8 back in as a terminating bay, with P9 (South part of current P8) totally bypassing it as a shorter through platform. My unscientific Google Maps measuring suggests you could fit 4 or 5 23m in the new P8 bay, and 10x24 in the remaining part of P8 (to become P9), maybe with minor lengthening maybe not.
Would be a much easier build than digging out a new bay in the middle of the platform and getting permission to demolish the building on it.
Might be an issue with pointwork radii at the north end though?
As someone who's signalled it for 20 years, no it does not. It's a fantastic layout with lots of get arounds when it goes wrong. All we need are Main Aspect starter signals reading out North from 6 and 8. From a signalling and routing point of view, it's fantastically flexible. Any resignalling would get rid of all that, for modern standards etc etc etc.
Could you explain what you mean by that - are the signals currently only ground signals? Traksy shows a signal of some sort in the north direction on both 6 and 8, I can only see ground signals on my few photos of platform 6 and haven't anything of north end of platform 8. I've seen northbound services terminate on platform 8, does a ground signal mean only shunting (non-passenger?) is permitted?
From a signalling and routing point of view, it's fantastically flexible. Any resignalling would get rid of all that, for modern standards etc etc etc.
It could do with something doing - I'm almost always held at Sheffield - last mile or so south of when coming in by Cross Country, or waiting to gain a spot in platform 3 when arriving on Northern.
Line speed is pretty low through the station, which can't help dwell times either.
Great to read from someone with experience in the box at Sheffield.
Could you explain what you mean by that - are the signals currently only ground signals? Traksy shows a signal of some sort in the north direction on both 6 and 8, I can only see ground signals on my few photos of platform 6 and haven't anything of north end of platform 8. I've seen northbound services terminate on platform 8, does a ground signal mean only shunting (non-passenger?) is permitted?
Ha, yes there's still some experience from Sheffield, not many mind. If I can see my last 20 years out working Sheffield and Rotherham, I'll retire happy.
From the South we cannot signal passenger trains into Platform 6 because it is done under the authority of Position Lights, there isn't even an indicator to tell drivers where they would be going. We can run ECS and Freight/Light Locos that way though. If there was a Main Aspect at the North of 6, it would be ok, because then main aspect from the South could be used.
We always run into 8 from the South, because there is a Main Aspect S139 on the North End. But it's a fixed Red. So the only signal we can give trains from S139 is a position light, for what's referred to as a Wall Side Movement. For this we have to talk drivers through the move.
Back to Platform 6, the North End signal is a GPL, so again, we have to talk to drivers of passenger trains the movements.
If these two signals were just but fully operational signals under main aspect, the flexibility of the station would improve tenfold. As we could also use them for such as the Leeds and Lincolns who come in and change ends, in times of disruption especially.
Future plans, there are tentative rumours that there will be a signal placed half way down Platform 6 facing South, in effect creating a new platform, with trains then able to go South into the South end of 6, via what is now Up Station Siding 2 at the North End, and into 6 via the Centre Slip. Northern would then lose valuable space for keeping it's units overnight as would TPX. So for this to happen, we really need the Down Siding back that runs parallel to the road on the Down Side, to regain what gets lost over at the other side on 6. The Down Siding has been out of use since that cement train fell off a few years ago, it never got given back despite being relaid. Drivers won't use it because there's also no walking route, so this needs sorting.
Also in the rumour mill are the much needed Starters Main Aspects at North of 6 and 8.
Hope this makes sense.
From a signalling point of view, there are so many small scale projects that would help. If I were the money;
Dore redoubled (now getting done, but it's taken 20 years.....)
Double the Holmes Chord
Get rid of the single lead junction at Masborough
Reopen Masborough Loop
A North Facing crossover from the Back of Brightside Station back to the Down Main so we can use it as a loop, like we do for when the Barnsley trains are all over the place.
What do I know though.... I'm just a Signaller, and our opinion doesn't count.
Sadly we have ended up in a sad state of affairs. If something isn't used for something planned, then they get rid. Loops, Crossovers, Sidings.
People don't like it, but if we want to run the amount of trains we do, we need contingency track, loops and crossovers. But because they might not get used for 7 months, they get taken off us.
We run too many trains, too short, on not enough track. Why are we running a three coach (four with first class) potentially every half hour, looking at you Cross Country. Make them ten cars, once an hour and have done with it. More like the foreign model. Long and hourly.
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I've posted before that the incoming Lincoln services always get held coming into Sheffield in the tunnels after coming down off Nunnery (and quite often also at Nunnery),
We run too many trains, too short, on not enough track. Why are we running a three coach (four with first class) potentially every half hour, looking at you Cross Country. Make them ten cars, once an hour and have done with it. More like the foreign model. Long and hourly.
It really does. Thank you for that. Really hope those station area enhancements come off, it's almost all just S&T, not a piece of track needing to be altered.
The current timetable / platform allocation looks bonkers then. As things currently stand, only about 4-5 MML London services are booked for platform 8 per day. That platform is ideal given it currently hasn't proper northbound signalling. The other 25 services are scheduled to occupy platform 2 or 5 for about 25-30 minutes every hour. But 2 and 5 are premium, through, platforms.
What the heck?
No wonder I'm always held coming from the South - one third of the through platforms are wasted almost all of the day!! MML services could own p6 and p8 exclusively - would that improve things.
Any chance you can run an experiment for me on that
From a signalling point of view, there are so many small scale projects that would help. If I were the money;
[..]
What do I know though.... I'm just a Signaller, and our opinion doesn't count.
The current timetable / platform allocation looks bonkers then. As things currently stand, only about 4-5 MML London services are booked for platform 8 per day. That platform is ideal given it currently hasn't proper northbound signalling. The other 25 services are scheduled to occupy platform 2 or 5 for about 25-30 minutes every hour. But 2 and 5 are premium, through, platforms.
Whilst appreciating the comments from GardenRail and others that the layout's not too bad from an operational perspective, I wonder if it could be improved from a passenger perspective. In particular the vast majority of passengers currently have to fight their way over the footbridge to access the platforms. The only platform which avoids this is platform 1. This should be the most commercially valuable platform but is hardly intensively used and some of that is by trains formed by 2 car DMU'S.
Sheffield arguably has too many through platforms. The trains to London don't need through platforms, nor do the Nottingham-Liverpools and Hope Valley stoppers. At the north of the station the local services to Leeds, Lincoln, Huddersfield, Adwick, Scarborough etc don't need through platforms.
What I would suggest is needed is something like Leeds where usually the Airedale, Wharfedale, Harrogate and London trains are accommodated in bays, passengers avoiding the footbridge.
Whilst appreciating the comments from GardenRail and others that the layout's not too bad from an operational perspective, I wonder if it could be improved from a passenger perspective. In particular the vast majority of passengers currently have to fight their way over the footbridge to access the platforms. The only platform which avoids this is platform 1. This should be the most commercially valuable platform but is hardly intensively used and some of that is by trains formed by 2 car DMU'S.
Sheffield arguably has too many through platforms. The trains to London don't need through platforms, nor do the Nottingham-Liverpools and Hope Valley stoppers. At the north of the station the local services to Leeds, Lincoln, Huddersfield, Adwick, Scarborough etc don't need through platforms.
What I would suggest is needed is something like Leeds where usually the Airedale, Wharfedale, Harrogate and London trains are accommodated in bays, passengers avoiding the footbridge.
Interesting thought. Turn P1 and the two tracks next to it into four bays (two north, two south), with the current 3 & 4 used as sidings? It wouldn't gain you anything operationally, but it would allow a direct route off the concourse.
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or if you're booked in the same platform....
