West Midlands Cancellations Crewe to London Euston

[parkender102]

Daughter is travelling today to London Euston from Crewe on a Super Off Peak West Midlands Trains Only - Booked Train Only I assume. Her 17:13 Train Cancelled, 18:13 Train Cancelled. I would suggest she just gets on Avanti and explains the situation - not sure if they are lifting Ticket Restrictions? Any other alternatives? There is a 19:13 West Midlands Train Running but according to National Rail it's cancelled for London Euston so is she going to be stranded at Milton Keynes?

 

[Merseysider]

I would suggest she just gets on Avanti and explains the situation

definitely not unless ticket acceptance is in place, she’s liable to be charged for an expensive new fare.

Can she find a train via Brum (with WMR/LNR)?

The PRO does oblige train companies to reroute passengers if an anticipated delay is >1 hour but in practice train companies are largely ignorant of, or refuse to honour, their obligations.

 

[JonathanH]

I would suggest she just gets on Avanti and explains the situation - not sure if they are lifting Ticket Restrictions? Any other alternatives?

Catch the 1719 and go via Birmingham using LNR trains.

A traveller should never "just get on" another train without checking first at a help desk, hearing an official announcement or having their ticket endorsed.

The right thing to do is go to the station in time for 1713 and follow the directions given by official announcements or by appropriate staff. In this case, there will be multiple people affected.

Super Off Peak West Midlands Trains Only

Isn't valid for departure from Crewe at 1713 or 1813. Is it actually an advance ticket for the 1713?

 

[parkender102]

Catch the 1719 and go via Birmingham using LNR trains.

A traveller should never "just get on" another train without checking first at a help desk, hearing an official announcement or having their ticket endorsed.

The right thing to do is go to the station in time for 1713 and follow the directions given by official announcements or by appropriate staff. In this case, there will be multiple people affected.


Isn't valid for departure from Crewe at 1713 or 1813. Is it actually an advance ticket for the 1713?

My mistake - it's an Advance Single for the 17:13

 

[Watershed]

Clearly she is going to be far over an hour late arriving at London if she stuck to WMT. Therefore, WMT are under an obligation to arrange ticket acceptance on Avanti (or if necessary, buy her a new ticket valid on Avanti) if she asks them to re-route her at the earliest opportunity.

If and when they refuse to do this (ideally documented in writing - easily done if requested by social media), she should buy a new ticket as necessary to travel on Avanti and claim back the cost from WMT. It's a bad idea to simply board the Avanti service and plead her case since the Train Manager is highly likely to charge her for a new ticket (as the rules allow, even if it's completely unreasonable in the circumstances), or if she encounters RPIs they could in theory take details for a potential prosecution.

Of course the alternative is to stick to WMT services (e.g. via Birmingham) and claim Delay Repay, which would result in an effectively free journey. There are plenty of alternative LNR services from Rugby or Milton Keynes to London so she's not going to be stranded - merely severely inconvenienced and delayed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would go via Birmingham and claim Delay Repay. TOCs are generally unwilling to arrange acceptance when industrial action is the cause, and getting your rights to be re-routed is at best challenging, TOCs do like to pretend that law doesn't exist.

 

[JonathanH]

I would go via Birmingham and claim Delay Repay. TOCs are generally unwilling to arrange acceptance when industrial action is the cause, and getting your rights to be re-routed is at best challenging, TOCs do like to pretend that law doesn't exist.

That is clearly the fall back situation, and that journey would start at 1719 but without being at Crewe in time for the 1713, or asking on social media, it isn't possible to know what the official plan is.

As I note, there will be multiple people affected and the staff at Crewe will need to announce what passengers should do. What won't necessarily help is that this train has been removed from the schedules today.

I am not sure your assertion that an unwillingness to organise acceptance will necessarily be correct in this instance. As we saw in another thread acceptance was organised for truncation of the 1846 from Euston to Crewe yesterday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As I note, there will be multiple people affected and the staff at Crewe will need to announce what passengers should do. What won't necessarily help is that this train has been removed from the schedules today.

If they've P-coded it that means no Delay Repay

 

[JonathanH]

If they've P-coded it that means no Delay Repay

Originally amended to start Rugby. Actually appears planned to start at Milton Keynes.

Realtime Trains | 1U40 1849 Milton Keynes Central to London Euston | 07/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 1U40 1849 departure from Milton Keynes Central to London Euston on 07/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[mangyiscute]

I asked them on twitter and this is the advice given:

 

[JBuchananGB]

Problem seems to be that the 1836 ex BHM will terminate at Rugby, and the connecting service from there is cancelled. Need to decide whether to chance the RRB to Rugby at 18.50 or wait for the 19.13 from Crewe to London.

 

[mangyiscute]

Problem seems to be that the 1836 ex BHM will terminate at Rugby, and the connecting service from there is cancelled. Need to decide whether to chance the RRB to Rugby at 18.50 or wait for the 19.13 from Crewe to London.

I mean I can't imagine that the RRB will get to Rugby before the train going via Birmingham does, since the bus will probably be calling at the intermediate stations (and driving even direct is 1h43 according to google maps). Fingers crossed they get a sensible avanti train manager who allows them to take an avanti service, but otherwise I would aim to go via Birmingham.

 

[parkender102]

Well her connection to Crewe was delayed due to trespassers at Chester can you believe (that was an Avanti Train). Everyone directed to ATW Service to Crewe. So she missed her train to Birmingham. She has spoken to an Avanti member of Staff at Crewe who said she can use the Avanti 17:55 to London Euston. Will this hold up when she repeats what she is told if asked on the Avanti Train? She's not a Savvy Rail Traveller - I'd have got the persons name and contact details and ask them if I could have it in writing!

 

[Birmingham]

She has spoken to an Avanti member of Staff at Crewe who said she can use the Avanti 17:55 to London Euston. Will this hold up when she repeats what she is told if asked on the Avanti Train? She's not a Savvy Rail Traveller - I'd have got the persons name and contact details and ask them if I could have it in writing!

She can always still ask the Train Manager on the platform when the train arrives.

 

[trainophile]

She can always still ask the Train Manager on the platform when the train arrives.

Not always easy to find on a 9 or 11 coach train with presumably a fairly brief dwell time. I'd be inclined to board anyway on the strength of the agreement you've already had.

This P-coding thing, is there a thread somewhere discussing the legality of cancelling trains the night before and then refusing a refund, thus making people effectively pay twice for their journey? Seems morally unjust to me.

 

[Birmingham]

This P-coding thing, is there a thread somewhere discussing the legality of cancelling trains the night before and then refusing a refund, thus making people effectively pay twice for their journey? Seems morally unjust to me.

You’re still entitled to a refund if the train you’ve booked is no longer scheduled to run and you choose not to travel; you just can’t still travel and then claim Delay Repay based on the arrival time of the train you booked.

 

[parkender102]

Not always easy to find on a 9 or 11 coach train with presumably a fairly brief dwell time. I'd be inclined to board anyway on the strength of the agreement you've already had.

This P-coding thing, is there a thread somewhere discussing the legality of cancelling trains the night before and then refusing a refund, thus making people effectively pay twice for their journey? Seems morally unjust to me.

I think she's lost the will to live and is just going to get on the 17:55 (Delayed) to London Euston Avanti expected at 18:21 and quote what the guy said. Considering this is the train she was on earlier to Crewe that was delayed by Trespassers and is now arriving late - that plus the 3 WMT Cancellations at 17:15, 18:15, 19:15 (only going to Milton Keynes). It just shows what a ****show the trains in this country are currently. I travelled to London regularly Mon - Fri every week for 12 years with Virgin and I can count the times I had any problem as bad as this on the fingers of one hand.

 

[trainophile]

You’re still entitled to a refund if the train you’ve booked is no longer scheduled to run and you choose not to travel; you just can’t still travel and then claim Delay Repay based on the arrival time of the train you booked.

Ah, that makes more sense. So if you have to buy a new ticket you can claim the original one back. Of course if it was a cheap Advance then you're not going to break even, but better than nothing I suppose.

 

[Birmingham]

Ah, that makes more sense. So if you have to buy a new ticket you can claim the original one back. Of course if it was a cheap Advance then you're not going to break even, but better than nothing I suppose.

You don’t have to buy a new ticket either. You can take the following train that’s running on your existing ticket. The implication is purely Delay Repay eligibility.

 

[trainophile]

You don’t have to buy a new ticket either. You can take the following train that’s running on your existing ticket. The implication is purely Delay Repay eligibility.

Got it. Thanks again.

 

[allotments]

I asked them on twitter and this is the advice given:

Is there one place nationally where we can look up temporary ticket acceptance arrangements on other train operating companies' services when there is disruption？

I was travelling Euston - Crewe Tuesday this week with an LNR only ticket，running 2 hours late with no direct LNR trains to Crewe due to cancellations.

5pm at Birmingham New St further cancellations meant I would likely arrive over 3 hours late. Avanti gateline staff checked with their control and told me there was no ticket acceptance for LNR passengers on Avanti trains.

More or less at the same time I direct messaged LNR on X and was told that ticket acceptance with Avanti was in place.

Which was it？

 

[parkender102]

Its an absolute joke for the average passenger. Imagine if it was your aging Grandma or your average Joe who doesn't travel regularly by train - they really haven't got a chance.

My daughters journey to London last night ended well getting in to London on a delayed train at around 20:00 - however she was on an Avanti Train not the LNR / WMT Train that the ticket specified and there was no comeback. During the journey I was sat in front of my laptop with multiple windows open with arrivals and departures for National Rail and this Forum open hoping for an answer and in constant contact with my daughter for an hour on Whatsapp. The wife sent a query I think on Twitter and got a reply from WMT I think suggesting she go via Birmingham - a journey of well over 4 Hours - considering she'd already been delayed by a late departure at Chester. Happily on the advice of staff she used the Avanti Service instead but I've still no idea whether Ticket Acceptance was in place - probably not by looking at the reply on Twitter.

 

[JBuchananGB]

She can still make a claim against Avanti because it was their original delay Chester to Crewe which caused her to "miss" the connection at Crewe. She can claim based on the tickets actually used Chester to London, and the delay of the arrival of the actual train on which she travelled compared to the due arrival of the 17.13 LNR service on which she was booked.