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Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

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Gloster

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Ah, but it has the advantage of piling a number of massive problems on to an incoming Labour government: further damage to the NHS and care sector, a wide variety of jobs unfilled, disruption to the lives of those already here, etc., which can only be solved by Labour loosening various recently imposed rules, something that wil be depicted as a betrayal of…well, something or other. This is not a considered economic or social judgement: it is only to keep the barking end of the Conservative Party happy.
 
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nw1

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Ah, but it has the advantage of piling a number of massive problems on to an incoming Labour government: further damage to the NHS and care sector, a wide variety of jobs unfilled, disruption to the lives of those already here, etc., which can only be solved by Labour loosening various recently imposed rules, something that wil be depicted as a betrayal of…well, something or other. This is not a considered economic or social judgement: it is only to keep the barking end of the Conservative Party happy.

So rather than trying to win the election, they're trying to make Labour look bad by completely screwing things up in the remaining months before said election and setting them up for failure? I sincerely hope that is not the case!

But given the Tories seem to have zero interest in appealing to the centre ground, it does make you wonder.
 

oldman

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As I said, from my reading of this: no more foreign nurses, no more foreign carers. No foreigners allowed to apply for entry-level professional jobs. Have I misunderstood something?
Health and care workers are excluded but in future will not be allowed to bring dependents including children.
 

nw1

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Health and care workers are excluded
Well, that's something, at least - thanks for clarifying.
but in future will not be allowed to bring dependents including children.
But that makes life more difficult for them - so basically they can only come here if they are single. Could still have a significant detrimental impact.

And even outside the health and care sphere, a lot of professional jobs earn less than £38,700 per year, particularly in the early years, so you're still blocking any foreigners from taking such jobs. Seems incredibly harsh. What if someone wants to move here for personal reasons (they have met a UK partner) and wishes to apply for a job which earns less than £38,700?
 
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edwin_m

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One factor in increasing immigration may be that the previous EU immigrants were not travelling far and would tend to leave their families behind but visit quite frequently. After Brexit much more of the immigration is from further away and poorer countries where return visits are more difficult and there's a bigger difference in standards of heathcare, education etc. So it's more likely they will bring their families too.
 

DynamicSpirit

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One factor in increasing immigration may be that the previous EU immigrants were not travelling far and would tend to leave their families behind but visit quite frequently. After Brexit much more of the immigration is from further away and poorer countries where return visits are more difficult and there's a bigger difference in standards of heathcare, education etc. So it's more likely they will bring their families too.

Sure, you could theorize that's a possible factor - and it's possible (but not certain) that could've had a small effect. But why the need to blame Brexit when there are so many other obvious reasons why immigration last year was so high - namely, all the pent up demand after travel was largely blocked in the Covid years, plus we had special visa schemes under which we took in a lot of refugees from Ukraine and people fleeing the clampdown in Hong Kong, as well as some (not too many, shamefully) refugees from Afghanistan. To ignore all those and pick on a much smaller factor that is Brexit-related could give the impression of, going out of one's way looking for excuses to scapegoat Brexit ;)
 

edwin_m

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Sure, you could theorize that's a possible factor - and it's possible (but not certain) that could've had a small effect. But why the need to blame Brexit when there are so many other obvious reasons why immigration last year was so high - namely, all the pent up demand after travel was largely blocked in the Covid years, plus we had special visa schemes under which we took in a lot of refugees from Ukraine and people fleeing the clampdown in Hong Kong, as well as some (not too many, shamefully) refugees from Afghanistan. To ignore all those and pick on a much smaller factor that is Brexit-related could give the impression of, going out of one's way looking for excuses to scapegoat Brexit ;)
Equally well you give the impression of being determined not to blame Brexit for anything.
 

SuspectUsual

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Howardh

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So let me get this right, if you want to marry anyone from outside the UK/Ireland they have to earn the thick end of £40k to come here? What if they are retired? Or from Crown Dependencies??

The Tory party, the Party that banned love???
 

takno

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Combined income of the pair, the current threshold is £18,600. https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income
The announcement made on the changes was that they would apply to "all" immigration, which would presumably include family visas. In practice as with most of this government's announcements that was probably hyperbole, and the whole thing will be forgotten before it's even implemented. You can't blame people for taking the government at their word though.

IIRC citizenship applications also require a higher income, so if you want any more than indefinite leave to remain, which isn't really enough for the long term, then you will probably need to meet a higher threshold.
 

JamesT

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The announcement made on the changes was that they would apply to "all" immigration, which would presumably include family visas. In practice as with most of this government's announcements that was probably hyperbole, and the whole thing will be forgotten before it's even implemented. You can't blame people for taking the government at their word though.

IIRC citizenship applications also require a higher income, so if you want any more than indefinite leave to remain, which isn't really enough for the long term, then you will probably need to meet a higher threshold.
I’m not sure if you’ve misunderstood me. I wasn’t saying the family visa wouldn’t change, but that there is already a requirement for a minimum income. So the only change for the family visa is essentially a change to the threshold.
 

Busaholic

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The increase only brings the level set in 2019 (and actually reduced in 2020) up in line with inflation.
£18,600 to £38,700 in line with inflation? Wow, no wonder so many have been on strike!!
 

JamesT

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Mojo

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£18,600 to £38,700 in line with inflation? Wow, no wonder so many have been on strike!!
I am referring to the increase for skilled worker visa which was what was being discussed at the time.
 

M&NEJ

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So let me get this right, if you want to marry anyone from outside the UK/Ireland they have to earn the thick end of £40k to come here?
If you want to marry someone from abroad (as I do) you have to demonstrate a combined income of £18,600 which is now to be hiked to £38,700 - usually it's the UK partner who will have that income.
£18,600 to £38,700 in line with inflation? Wow, no wonder so many have been on strike!!
It's basically the "Tory right" giving two fingers to those of us who are in international relationships - when you look at the number politicians with foreign wives it's another example of the privileged few being OK thank you very much versus the rest of us who are having our lives messed up.
 

cb a1

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Not being able to bring your family is an interesting one. I know that for some countries, having someone in the family working abroad is a very important source of income for them (and their country).
The upshot of this is that a substantial part of the income of whoever comes to the UK goes straight to another country. That's a very good thing for that country to have £ coming into their economy. Money that the poorest get doesn't go into savings, but is used to buy goods and services which sees each £ spent multiple times and boosting that countries economy. The donor country also benefits from the UK paying for all the training that the person coming here gets and takes back to their own country.
On balance, I would guess the policy will be welcomed by the countries who have people who want to come here to work. It will be a great boost for their economy.
 

brad465

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This week when Johnson appears before the covid inquiry, we might get to hear more about the idea he floated of conducting a military raid on a vaccine factory in The Netherlands at the height of covid in early 2021:


Boris Johnson’s appearance before the Covid-19 inquiry is not until Wednesday but it is already making headlines in the Netherlands amid a mixture of amusement and alarm at claims he asked for British spies to plan a “raid” on a Dutch vaccine plant.

The operation – according to sources who briefed Johnson’s employer, the Daily Mail – would have taken place against the backdrop of a tit-for-tat row in March 2021 between the then prime minister and the EU, which was moving towards restricting exports of vaccines across the Channel.

An “enraged” Johnson asked security services to draw up “military options” to obtain “impounded” doses of AstraZeneca vaccine from a plant in Leiden after Britain had negotiated a deal with the company.

But while Britain’s security services were spared their biggest debacle on Dutch soil since Operation Market Garden, the claim has been widely reported on front pages in the Netherlands. Elsewhere, Russian state media generated a po-faced report on the claims, interspersing clips of Johnson with footage of British special forces and overlaying them with a sinister backing track.

The Dutch ministry of foreign affairs confirmed it was “aware” of the report but declined to comment.

Johnson is expected to refer to the episode, potentially in a written statement accompanying his evidence to the inquiry, which will take place over the course of Wednesday and Thursday.

Figures close to Johnson have been busily briefing the media before his appearance, advising that he will reject claims that he was not sufficiently engaged in policy during the 10-day period.

The former Conservative leader will reject claims that he did not concentrate on the looming threat of the pandemic during the half-term break in February 2020 because he was supposedly writing a biography about William Shakespeare.

A spokesperson for Johnson previously rejected reports that he was focused on the book during the critical period in question but Downing Street also did not deny that Johnson had worked on the book, for which he received a £88,000 advance from his publisher Hodder & Stoughton UK in 2015, since becoming prime minister in July 2019.

“The evidence shows, from the diary extracts, that he wasn’t away all the time. He came back into the office from Chevening. The records show he was working the whole time, he wasn’t writing a book … We think this one is quite easily dealt with.” the Telegraph quoted a source close to Johnson as saying.
 

Busaholic

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He did say it had been reduced. Assuming we’re talking about the Skilled Worker visa, previously the Tier 2 visa, the threshold was £30k - https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....to-meet-the-30000-minimum-income-requirement/
Putting £30k in 2019 into the BoE inflation calculator says £36,729.33 as of October.
So, whichever way you mess with the figures, it's still untrue to say it's in line with inflation. Personally, I'd like my State Pension boosted by these actuaries.:smile:
 

M&NEJ

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It's basically the "Tory right" giving two fingers to those of us who are in international relationships - when you look at the number politicians with foreign wives it's another example of the privileged few being OK thank you very much versus the rest of us who are having our lives messed up.
Just venting my feelings (at 02:26 because I can't sleep): Sunak the Selfish strikes again!
 

The Ham

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Just venting my feelings (at 02:26 because I can't sleep): Sunak the Selfish strikes again!

Fair enough.

Bottom line is one of the reasons we need more people coming here to work is our population is aging. Without people coming here our working population will fall at a time when the total population is rising (all the increases without immigration is in the 65+ population).

The thing is that also means that there's a need for more people. I, being below 50, tend to have less need for other people than those over 70 (for example I rarely go out to eat, rarely buy in person and tend not to buy a lot of stuff either, rarely need healthcare, etc.).

As the numbers over 80 increases the need for more carers, doctors, etc increases just as fast.
 

nw1

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This week when Johnson appears before the covid inquiry, we might get to hear more about the idea he floated of conducting a military raid on a vaccine factory in The Netherlands at the height of covid in early 2021:

He's self-evidently as unhinged as Trump.

Johnson, Truss, Sunak - all three of them atrociously dire prime ministers, who have harmed the UK's international reputation massively.
 
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ainsworth74

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He's self-evidently as unhinged as Trump.
I think a sense of proportion might be required. Johnson was clearly unfit to be Prime Minister, but he was nowhere near as bad Trump. To take one example, Johnson resigned his position and Trump would never resign.
 

jfollows

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Boris Johnson is a liar, foremost, and secondly he believes his own lies, so he is deluded. Everything he does is to benefit himself, not others. But I think he actually believes he cares about others and about the good of the country, whereas Trump seems much more focussed on not giving a toss about anyone else. So he's worse, but they are both unfit for the jobs they had. Anyone who believes more than a couple of words coming out of Boris today and tomorrow is misguided.
 

dosxuk

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I wouldn't describe Boris as a liar - I would describe him as a populist. He doesn't care what he says - truth, lies, fantasy or fact, as long as it will improve his popularity he's happy to say it in public. His lies are a lot more calculated than just being pathological.

Did he want to invade the Netherlands in order to improve the vaccination availability for the country, or did he want to invade them because it would boost his ratings, sticking one up to johnny foreigner and taking what some would say was rightfully ours?
 

43096

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But I think he actually believes he cares about others and about the good of the country,
He doesn’t. Johnson is only interested in himself, his ego and the pursuit of power to massage that ego.

Everything that has happened has been totally predictable - look up Max Hastings’ withering assessment of him.
 

jfollows

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He doesn’t. Johnson is only interested in himself, his ego and the pursuit of power to massage that ego.

Everything that has happened has been totally predictable - look up Max Hastings’ withering assessment of him.
I said he believes that he cares about others, I agree with you that he actually doesn’t. He thinks he’s a wonderful PM. Max Hastings worked him out, I agree also.
 

Purple Train

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This week when Johnson appears before the covid inquiry, we might get to hear more about the idea he floated of conducting a military raid on a vaccine factory in The Netherlands at the height of covid in early 2021:

Did anyone else think of that line from Yes Prime Minister, "like bombing Warsaw or invading France"? I did (once I had verified that I was not, in fact, dreaming).
 
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