GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[zoneking]

2 units missing on North Downs this morning.

What has become a big problem locally is that 1V39 which takes around 40 school kids from Redhill/Reigate to Dorking has been cancelled every day this week creating havoc to the kids education.

Agree, there was no service last week due to engineering works and no service again this week at certain times due to 'more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time'.

 

[MasterPhillips]

Yes, it’s been an awful few days on the North Downs. Really unacceptable was for so many services to be cancelled all week. But of course the Marlow shuttle is more important in peak time than services to Gatwick…

 

[JN114]

Yes, it’s been an awful few days on the North Downs. Really unacceptable was for so many services to be cancelled all week. But of course the Marlow shuttle is more important in peak time than services to Gatwick…

Whilst the DfT -imposed performance regime prioritises numbers of cancellations; then the 30 minute round trip peak Marlows is always going to trump a 4 hour round trip Gatwick. 8 cancellations vs 2.

 

[MasterPhillips]

Whilst the DfT -imposed performance regime prioritises numbers of cancellations; then the 30 minute round trip peak Marlows is always going to trump a 4 hour round trip Gatwick. 8 cancellations vs 2.

Very true, clearly a new metric such as how many passengers will be affected could be the answer, however would be very difficult to work that out.

However, GWR could, in the event of a severe shortage of units, run the off peak Maidenhead to Marlow timetable (which requires only one unit), all day instead of having a peak period in the mornings and evenings requiring two units. That way there wouldn’t be 8 cancellations as you say, and would allow an extra unit for the North Downs which is far busier.

 

[JN114]

Very true, clearly a new metric such as how many passengers will be affected could be the answer, however would be very difficult to work that out.

However, GWR could, in the event of a severe shortage of units, run the off peak Maidenhead to Marlow timetable (which requires only one unit), all day instead of having a peak period in the mornings and evenings requiring two units. That way there wouldn’t be 8 cancellations as you say, and would allow an extra unit for the North Downs which is far busier.

24 cancellations if you reduce to hourly, 1-unit service morning and evening peaks (12 each peak). Plus it only frees a 2 car unit which aren’t ideal on N Downs during leaf fall.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Very true, clearly a new metric such as how many passengers will be affected could be the answer, however would be very difficult to work that out.

However, GWR could, in the event of a severe shortage of units, run the off peak Maidenhead to Marlow timetable (which requires only one unit), all day instead of having a peak period in the mornings and evenings requiring two units. That way there wouldn’t be 8 cancellations as you say, and would allow an extra unit for the North Downs which is far busier.

That would still result in cancellations as you could only run half the service on the Bourne End branch.

 

[MasterPhillips]

That would still result in cancellations as you could only run half the service on the Bourne End branch.

Yes, but how many more people are affected by cancelling a peak Gatwick train (plus the return) compared to cancelling half of the Bourne End shuttle. Ultimately, both lines are half-hourly during peak, so which ever you cancel results in the same level of service, so prioritising the busier (The North Downs) must make more sense.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Yes, but how many more people are affected by cancelling a peak Gatwick train (plus the return) compared to cancelling half of the Bourne End shuttle. Ultimately, both lines are half-hourly during peak, so which ever you cancel results in the same level of service, so prioritising the busier (The North Downs) must make more sense.

Unfortunately the performance measure the DfT has decided to set (and benchmarks TOCs against) doesn’t factor this in.

 

[Western Sunset]

If I was the Head of the school where my pupils were arriving late, I'd be getting my secretary to ring GW ASAP. Plus others (MP /local authority) to get it sorted.

 

[JonathanH]

If I was the Head of the school where my pupils were arriving late, I'd be getting my secretary to ring GW ASAP. Plus others (MP /local authority) to get it sorted.

Trouble is that there are school flows on many different trains, and a choice needs to be made between all of them.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If I was the Head of the school where my pupils were arriving late, I'd be getting my secretary to ring GW ASAP. Plus others (MP /local authority) to get it sorted.

The railway does not have anymore of an obligation to provide on time services to school children than it does to anybody else.

 

[Western Sunset]

The railway does not have anymore of an obligation to provide on time services to school children than it does to anybody else.

I'd still be ringing them...

 

[MasterPhillips]

I'd still be ringing them...

agree. One off day is understandable but it’s been the same trains cancelled pretty much all week.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I'd still be ringing them...

And yes I’m sure customer relations would deal with it the same way as they would deal with any other complaint.

 

[Western Sunset]

Said train, 1V39 0759 Gatwick - Reading, running (or not) this week:
Mon Cancel - late arrival of inbound service
Tue Cancel - problem at depot
Wed Cancel - problem at depot
Thu Cancel - problem at depot

Any bets on tomorrow?

 

[REVUpminster]

Devon Metro only had two turbos yesterday. One on Barnstaple and one Paignton. All the other trains on Paignton Exmouth were short formed two cars except the school train that carries up to 200 grammar school pupils. Previous complaints do work.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2023 ==

Today Friday four turbos, no short forms. Did a box of spare parts arrive? Did a mechanic come back from a holiday?

 

[MasterPhillips]

Same can’t be said for Reading area unfortunately. So many cancellations on the North Downs, there was a warning on the national rail website/app about severe disruption due to “more trains than usual needing repair at the same time”.

 

[Minstral25]

Same can’t be said for Reading area unfortunately. So many cancellations on the North Downs, there was a warning on the national rail website/app about severe disruption due to “more trains than usual needing repair at the same time”.

Yes - Today North Downs seems to be at least 2 units out with 2 ex-Gatwick services in a row cancelled.

 

[MasterPhillips]

Yes - Today North Downs seems to be at least 2 units out with 2 ex-Gatwick services in a row cancelled.

It’s been the same the last 3 days at least. Not helped yesterday as a unit on the Basingstoke line also had to be taken out of service during the evening peak due to door issues.

 

[FGW_DID]

Same can’t be said for Reading area unfortunately. So many cancellations on the North Downs, there was a warning on the national rail website/app about severe disruption due to “more trains than usual needing repair at the same time”.

It’s been the same the last 3 days at least. Not helped yesterday as a unit on the Basingstoke line also had to be taken out of service during the evening peak due to door issues.

"More trains than usual needing repair at the same time” is exactly that. Unfortunately, on top of the scheduled exam work etc, there has been a number of 3 car units that have suffered with wheel flats or cavities. It hasn't just been a case of being able to get get them tyre turned on the lathe either. Some have required multiple wheelsets changing so have been waiting for new wheelsets to arrive and then their turn on the lifting jacks.

It's certainly been a challenging week but if it wasn't for some creativity and cooperation between the Depot Controllers, production team & the controllers at Swindon, there could have been a lot more cancellations.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

165112 was on Portsmouths yesterday (so not a single table in the place ), which I thought was usually a Reading haunt.

 

[MasterPhillips]

"More trains than usual needing repair at the same time” is exactly that. Unfortunately, on top of the scheduled exam work etc, there has been a number of 3 car units that have suffered with wheel flats or cavities. It hasn't just been a case of being able to get get them tyre turned on the lathe either. Some have required multiple wheelsets changing so have been waiting for new wheelsets to arrive and then their turn on the lifting jacks.

It's certainly been a challenging week but if it wasn't for some creativity and cooperation between the Depot Controllers, production team & the controllers at Swindon, there could have been a lot more cancellations.

Of course, not trying to knock control or the depot. Just very demoralising seeing it pretty much all week.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Of course, not trying to knock control or the depot. Just very demoralising seeing it pretty much all week.

No justification of your annoyance is required. It is naturally an irritation and major inconvenience when a train company's fleet availability is at a shocking level, leading to mass cancellations, and that is an issue GWR does indeed have, regardless of how hard I'm sure teams have been working to maintain the trains. You are right to be unhappy as a customer directly impacted by GWR's inability to deliver the timetable, I also have been caught out a lot by this lately. (And my only other option is the even more hopeless TfW!)

The Turbos are becoming problematic (and the IETs aren't the best for availability), and a long term fleet solution is needed quickly. Let's hope Churchward rings its bells soon.

 

[Snow1964]

Seems lack of turbos mean the Saturday Bath market extras are IETs.

Frome or Westbury to Bristol Parkway, and Swindon Bristol TM

 

[JonathanH]

Looks like Reading is transferring a turbo west next Saturday

Realtime Trains | 5C48 0847 Reading Traincare Depot to St Philips Mrsh H S T D | 02/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5C48 0847 departure from Reading Traincare Depot to St Philips Mrsh H S T D on 02/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That path is in the timetable every week, and is a 'Q' path. There is one back as well.

Realtime Trains | 5A49 1406 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Reading Traincare Depot | 02/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5A49 1406 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Reading Traincare Depot on 02/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It wasn't used yesterday.

 

[Jim]

That path is in the timetable every week, and is a 'Q' path. There is one back as well.

Realtime Trains | 5A49 1406 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Reading Traincare Depot | 02/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 5A49 1406 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Reading Traincare Depot on 02/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It wasn't used yesterday.

This hasn't been used for some time, the current allocation of 3 car 165s in the Bristol area is a "permanent" thing this timetable period, as a result of the Class 166 refresh programme.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Nov 2023 ==

Seems lack of turbos mean the Saturday Bath market extras are IETs.

Frome or Westbury to Bristol Parkway, and Swindon Bristol TM

This is fairly usual isn't it every year (Well HSS stock generally) ?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Three Portsmouth diagrams are using 3-165s today where they'd have previously used a 166. While similar, I personally (and I know others do too, @cactustwirly will no doubt back me up here) find the 166 to have a far more superior environment, with more 2+2 areas including double the former first class seating (and those sections have tables), half tables and a sort of half vestibule situation unlike the 165s. You don't have a single thing to rest a coffee or laptop on with a 165. I do hope some distinguishing diagrams will be created to keep 3-165 and 166 on shorter and longer distance Turbo diagrams respectively. Perhaps when GWR are in a better position to organise their stock.

I was actually one of the few forumers not to mind the conversion of most services (planned at one point to be all, now it's been scaled back to about a 50/50 split) from 158 to 166, as I found the 166 to be a good compromise between comfort and the need for more capacity around major commuting hubs, but I think the 3-165 is a bit too far. Maybe one every now and then is fair enough as GWR's fleet is troublesome and difficult, but today only two 166s are on the route.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Three Portsmouth diagrams are using 3-165s today where they'd have previously used a 166. While similar, I personally (and I know others do too, @cactustwirly will no doubt back me up here) find the 166 to have a far more superior environment, with more 2+2 areas including double the former first class seating (and those sections have tables), half tables and a sort of half vestibule situation unlike the 165s. You don't have a single thing to rest a coffee or laptop on with a 165. I do hope some distinguishing diagrams will be created to keep 3-165 and 166 on shorter and longer distance Turbo diagrams respectively. Perhaps when GWR are in a better position to organise their stock.

I was actually one of the few forumers not to mind the conversion of most services (planned at one point to be all, now it's been scaled back to about a 50/50 split) from 158 to 166, as I found the 166 to be a good compromise between comfort and the need for more capacity around major commuting hubs, but I think the 3-165 is a bit too far. Maybe one every now and then is fair enough as GWR's fleet is troublesome and difficult, but today only two 166s are on the route.

The 165s are planned to be diagrammed separately.

I would imagine this is a fallout of the Action Short of a Strike. Possibly issues fuelling sets due to driver shortages may well mean the 166s that have been working over the weekend today have had to be constrained onto shorter diagrams (the Portsmouths are generally the longest).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 165s are planned to be diagrammed separately.

I would imagine this is a fallout of the Action Short of a Strike. Possibly issues fuelling sets due to driver shortages may well mean the 166s that have been working over the weekend today have had to be constrained onto shorter diagrams (the Portsmouths are generally the longest).

Perhaps, but I’ve seen 3-165 become very common over the past few weeks. That said, I haven’t seen any pairs of 2 car 165s for a while, and they were a really unfortunate arrangement that were becoming pretty common this time last year, or god forbid one on its own.

 

[Snow1964]

Perhaps, but I’ve seen 3-165 become very common over the past few weeks. That said, I haven’t seen any pairs of 2 car 165s for a while, and they were a really unfortunate arrangement that were becoming pretty common this time last year, or god forbid one on its own.

The 2V58 Southampton-Bristol was a 2car 165
It managed to lose 9 minutes on the route

Realtime Trains | 2V58 0823 Southampton Central to Bristol Temple Meads | 04/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2V58 0823 departure from Southampton Central to Bristol Temple Meads on 04/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Although they have oddly taken to using some 2car 158s for local stopping trains, eg 2V95 Salisbury-Bristol although that only got to Westbury, where it died with problem with the train

Realtime Trains | 2V95 1405 Salisbury to Westbury | 04/12/2023

Real-time train running information for 2V95 1405 departure from Salisbury to Westbury on 04/12/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk