What new train fleet that would suit Southeastern railway to replace the networkers.

[Stephen42]

I wonder if it would make more sense to get new 120m trains for mainline services to the Kent Coast and backfill the Networkers with existing Electrostars.

The mainline Electrostars aren't particularly suitable for metro operation. Part of the business case for the new trains will be higher capacity trains meaning fewer vehicles and crews are required to deliver the same level of overall capacity. Hopefully this will be allowing for future growth rather than locking in a reduction of vehicles, but it's unclear at this point.

120m trains in general don't fit well on the Southeastern network. Routes of out Victoria are mostly 160m for metro and Gillingham stoppers/Ashford via Maidstone. It's possible a metro order could work with a mix of 120m and 80m trains as a lot of the metro area is 240m capable with SDO aside from Victoria.

 

[JonathanH]

It's possible a metro order could work with a mix of 120m and 80m trains as a lot of the metro area is 240m capable with SDO aside from Victoria.

An issue mentioned in the past is a severe lack of 240m stabling space on the Southeastern network.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Third rail 345s or a 20m version would be ideal.

 

[brad465]

An issue mentioned in the past is a severe lack of 240m stabling space on the Southeastern network.

How easily could a new fleet come with a new depot/stabling area(s)? Class 700s came with new depot space at Three Bridges and Hornsey, and 345s came with new space at OOC, Maidenhead, Plumstead (and I presume extra GEML sites), so this would not be a new concept. If I had to speculate the full reopening of Chart Leacon would probably be the best single location, with some light expansion possible on top at other sites like Hoo junction and Hither Green if freight sidings can be repurposed.

 

[JonathanH]

Third rail 345s or a 20m version would be ideal.

The 20m version of a 345 is a 710?

 

[Energy]

The 20m version of a 345 is a 710?

Or 701... though perhaps don't order those...

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 20m version of a 345 is a 710?

It is, but I was thinking more of a 345 like interior rather than the purely side facing Overground one.

 

[Stephen42]

How easily could a new fleet come with a new depot/stabling area(s)? Class 700s came with new depot space at Three Bridges and Hornsey, and 345s came with new space at OOC, Maidenhead, Plumstead (and I presume extra GEML sites), so this would not be a new concept. If I had to speculate the full reopening of Chart Leacon would probably be the best single location, with some light expansion possible on top at other sites like Hoo junction and Hither Green if freight sidings can be repurposed.

The new fleet is based on it being more cost effective than the existing fleet, any required spending on additional stabling or depot capacity would reduce the benefits. Stabling would be problematic if trying to make all trains maximum length for each route, targeting the busiest trains in peak hour should be possible. A mix of 4 and 6 car trains would allow forming all existing lengths, all 4 cars seems more likely though.

 

[Snow1964]

The replacement of Eversholt Networkers is on DfT spreadsheet of upcoming contracts (rows 122, 123)
Suggests order is 350-700 vehicles
£2.2bn for trains
£1.1bn for financing

Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners

Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.

www.gov.uk

 

[JonathanH]

The replacement of Eversholt Networkers is on DfT spreadsheet of upcoming contracts (rows 122, 123)
Suggests order is 350-700 vehicles
£2.2bn for trains
£1.1bn for financing

Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners

Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.

www.gov.uk

Is a date given? End of the decade?

 

[Snow1964]

Is a date given? End of the decade?

No date for new trains, just existing lease contract ends 1/10/27

The commencement of new contract is expected to be 31/3/25 for 120 months (10 years)