Any spectacular use for DB IC1 and DB 101 locos?

[Stephen Lee]

With the introduction of IC2, ICE-4 and ICE-L and with ÖBB Tauruses released for Services between Germany and Austria as well as for Nightjet services, It is expected that more DB IC1 and DB 101s will be retired and scrapped.
Kindly advise if there are other use for both the remaining IC1 and 101s in order to save them from scrap? Some DB 101s were sold to RDC, TrainCharterService but I think they can go to RailAdventure, Railpool, Centralbahn too. What about IC1? If there are other spectacular use I could think of Flixtrain, RDC, ÖBB, MÀV, Regiojet, LeoExpress…..

 

[43096]

With the introduction of IC2, ICE-4 and ICE-L and with ÖBB Tauruses released for Services between Germany and Austria as well as for Nightjet services, It is expected that more DB IC1 and DB 101s will be retired and scrapped.
Kindly advise if there are other use for both the remaining IC1 and 101s in order to save them from scrap? Some DB 101s were sold to RDC, TrainCharterService but I think they can go to RailAdventure, Railpool, Centralbahn too. What about IC1? If there are other spectacular use I could think of Flixtrain, RDC, ÖBB, MÀV, Regiojet, LeoExpress…..

Why would ÖBB want them when they have a fleet of superior Tauri, plus new Vectrons on order?
Why would MÁV want 15kV AC only locos on a network electrified at 25kV?
I could go on…

 

[rvdborgt]

I'd indeed expect the IC coaches to go on the 2nd hand market. Some of them can run in many countries, including France, so I could imagine e.g. GoVolta to be interested.

 

[30907]

I'd indeed expect the IC coaches to go on the 2nd hand market. Some of them can run in many countries, including France, so I could imagine e.g. GoVolta to be interested.

They are quite elderly, though, are they not?

 

[Stephen Lee]

Why would ÖBB want them when they have a fleet of superior Tauri, plus new Vectrons on order?
Why would MÁV want 15kV AC only locos on a network electrified at 25kV?
I could go on…

I didn't say about 101 for ÖBB/MAV, What I mean is class 101 for RDC, TrainCharterService, RailAdventure, Railpool, Centralbahn.........

 

[JonasB]

There are rumours that SJ have bought three IC1 restaurant coaches for use on the night train to Germany.

 

[duesselmartin]

They are quite elderly, though, are they not?

around 40 years old

 

[rvdborgt]

There are rumours that SJ have bought three IC1 restaurant coaches for use on the night train to Germany.

The real restaurant coaches (WR), or the Bordbistro coaches? The Bordbistro coaches are technically IR coaches though (ARkimbz), but they should be available from 10 December.

 

[JonasB]

The real restaurant coaches (WR), or the Bordbistro coaches? The Bordbistro coaches are technically IR coaches though (ARkimbz), but they should be available from 10 December.

The Bordbistro ones.

Although I haven't seen it confirmed from a credible source. And I don't know how much work will be needed to be able to use them, but it will be a lot easier than trying to make one of their existing bistro coaches fit a smaller loading gauge…

 

[30907]

I didn't say about 101 for ÖBB/MAV, What I mean is class 101 for RDC, TrainCharterService, RailAdventure, Railpool, Centralbahn.........

What is spectacular about that? Do you mean speculative, perhaps?

 

[Fragezeichnen]

I haven't heard anything about more sales. Some have been sold, but plenty have been scrapped already too.

They are old, and DB decided a long time ago it would not need them any more and would not keep them in good condition. Their power rating is purely theoretical these days, and in hot weather they have to run in pairs because DB doesn't trust them not to overheat.
For their entire lives they had only one operator. I have heard rumours that some of the written knowledge about the class got lost over the years, and the knowledge to do major maintenance work only now exists in the minds of the DB Werkstatt staff.
More modern locomotives are more reliable, easier to maintain, can often run in multiple countries and not just Germany/Austria.

The only real advantage over most other locomotives is being able to run at 200km/h instead of 160km/h on lines equipped for it, but not all charter operators are interested in that or have 200km/h rolling stock.

 

[43096]

The only real advantage over most other locomotives is being able to run at 200km/h instead of 160km/h on lines equipped for it, but not all charter operators are interested in that or have 200km/h rolling stock.

Although the 101s are becoming less useful for that as ETCS slowly spreads. If an operator needs 200km/h locos then the leasing companies will happily supply an ES64U2 or Vectron that is capable of that speed.

 

[Richard Scott]

They are old, and DB decided a long time ago it would not need them any more and would not keep them in good condition. Their power rating is purely theoretical these days, and in hot weather they have to run in pairs because DB doesn't trust them not to overheat.
For their entire lives they had only one operator. I have heard rumours that some of the written knowledge about the class got lost over the years, and the knowledge to do major maintenance work only now exists in the minds of the DB Werkstatt staff.
More modern locomotives are more reliable, easier to maintain, can often run in multiple countries and not just Germany/Austria.

I assume you're referring to the 101s here? How is their power output theoretical? Electrical machines don't really degrade (I know the insulation will over time) so don't see where this is coming from.
They're a similar age to 145s, admittedly they've probably covered a much higher mileage so not really that old and can't see how knowledge has been lost over the years as the electrical/electronic components are similar to other classes of same vintage; of which many are still in service.
They rarely run in pairs, have seen them top and tail trains but that's been common practice for years where a driving vehicle has been unavailable.

 

[DanNCL]

The coaches probably have a future despite being fairly old as they’re still newer and more modern than a lot of the stuff that’s still clattering around in countries like Bulgaria.
The 101s are less likely to have a future, being 15kV only locos using obsolete 1990s components. There might be a limited resale market to operators like RailAdventure, but I suspect like our 91s that there isn’t much of a future for them beyond their current operations other than scrap.

 

[43096]

The coaches probably have a future despite being fairly old as they’re still newer and more modern than a lot of the stuff that’s still clattering around in countries like Bulgaria.
The 101s are less likely to have a future, being 15kV only locos using obsolete 1990s components. There might be a limited resale market to operators like RailAdventure, but I suspect like our 91s that there isn’t much of a future for them beyond their current operations other than scrap.

Although ironically it is the age of the stock that is in large part responsible for the demise of the 101s. It is noticeable that DB is retaining (and indeed refurbishing for another 10 years life) the ICE1 sets - the power cars are older than the 101s, but the passenger carrying vehicles are newer than the IC1 sets. Obsolescence in the 101s could be dealt with if there was a need for them: the ICE1 power cars have received new IGBT converters, for example.

 

[Fragezeichnen]

I assume you're referring to the 101s here? How is their power output theoretical? Electrical machines don't really degrade (I know the insulation will over time) so don't see where this is coming from.
They're a similar age to 145s, admittedly they've probably covered a much higher mileage so not really that old and can't see how knowledge has been lost over the years as the electrical/electronic components are similar to other classes of same vintage; of which many are still in service.
They rarely run in pairs, have seen them top and tail trains but that's been common practice for years where a driving vehicle has been unavailable.

I'm not making these problems up.

Locomotives have many mechanical parts such as compressors, traction motor blowers and transformer oil pumps and these use more power with age due to mechanical wear. A particular problem with the BR101 is that this has the tendency to cause overload of the auxiliary power supply. The drivers are not allowed to use full power anymore because of fears of overheating/overloading.

I was involved in a project to retrofit some equipment to a few of them(I don't really understand what the point was because they were already being being scrapped by that point but anyway ...). DB had to ring up retired staff and beg them to come and help out because they had lost the documentation they needed and couldn't figure out how to do it.

Your are right that normally driving trailers are used, but on very hot summer days(35c+) in the last couple of summers my memory is that almost all trains were top and tail.

 

[Richard Scott]

I'm not making these problems up.

Locomotives have many mechanical parts such as compressors, traction motor blowers and transformer oil pumps and these use more power with age due to mechanical wear. A particular problem with the BR101 is that this has the tendency to cause overload of the auxiliary power supply. The drivers are not allowed to use full power anymore because of fears of overheating/overloading.

I was involved in a project to retrofit some equipment to a few of them(I don't really understand what the point was because they were already being being scrapped by that point but anyway ...). DB had to ring up retired staff and beg them to come and help out because they had lost the documentation they needed and couldn't figure out how to do it.

Your are right that normally driving trailers are used, but on very hot summer days(35c+) in the last couple of summers my memory is that almost all trains were top and tail.

Ok, thanks for the information.

 

[MarcVD]

Your are right that normally driving trailers are used, but on very hot summer days(35c+) in the last couple of summers my memory is that almost all trains were top and tail.

That happens in Belgium too. But it doesn't have anything to do with loco reliability. It's just because in summer, there is a surplus of locomotives available, less of them being needed for commuter trains, and the loco driving post has aircon, while the driving trailer hasn't. Same explanation here perhaps ?

 

[Stephen Lee]

Why would ÖBB want them when they have a fleet of superior Tauri, plus new Vectrons on order?
Why would MÁV want 15kV AC only locos on a network electrified at 25kV?
I could go on…

Right, any news about the MÀV Vectron Locos and the NMUs order? as In mid-May 2023, János Lázár, the Minister of Construction and Transport, announced that the Hungarian government would "end its friendship with Siemens", which puts the delivery of the locomotives in doubt.