Permitted routes to Stafford & Wellington

[Safety365]

Two questions concerning permitted routes.

Say I wish to buy a SVR from Euston to Wellington Salop (WLN) using my Y-P railcard. Would I be able to travel via Stafford (STA). E.g VT to Stafford, XC or LM to Wolverhampton and then LM or ATW to Wellington?

Also, for another trip I want to buy a SVR with a Y-P railcard from Euston to Stafford. Would travelling via Birmingham New Street/Wolverhampton be permitted?

I would be grateful if someone in the know could check out the routing validity for me or explain how the complicated routing tables work.

Thanks

 

[yorkie]

The shortest route is permitted (including routes up to 3 miles longer).

For mapped routes, you must consult the Routeing Guide (RG).

The RG can be found here:

http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

To determine appropriate Routeing Points (RPs) we must look up Wellington and London here:

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/routeing_point_identifier.pdf (pink pages)

London Group is a RP, and Wellington is associated with two RPs: Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton.

For a journey to London, Shrewsbury fails the fares check. So we'll go with Wolverhampton.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/permitted_route_identifier.pdf (yellow pages)

You can see here that mapped routes between Wolverhampton and London are available on the following maps:

CS
GC+WM
SY+CN
TV
TV+CA

The maps can be found here:

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/Maps.pdf

 

[OwlMan]

Euston - Wellington is not valid via Stafford (it fails the fares rule; It also fails as it has a negative easement)
Also the correct mapped routes are CS GC+WM SY+CN TV TV+CA

700131 Customers travelling from Wolverhampton to London Euston, in
possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Stafford.
This easement applies in both directions.

Euston - Stafford is valid via Birmingham & Wolverhampton

Peter

 

[yorkie]

Euston - Wellington is not valid via Stafford (it fails the fares rule; It also fails as it has a negative easement)

Stafford isn't a RP for Wellington so the fares check rule doesn't apply to that. The fares check rule rules out Shrewsbury as a RP.

There isn't a negative easement for Wellington to London, there is a negative easement for Wolverhampton to London..

Customers travelling from Wolverhampton to London Euston, in
possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Stafford.
This easement applies in both directions.

However I have not checked the maps to see if it is a mapped route via Stafford. If it is mapped, then there is nothing I can see that prevents it being valid. If it isn't mapped, then it's not valid.

 

[OwlMan]

I meant Shrewsbury not Stafford for the fares rule - original changed

=Yorkie
There isn't a negative easement for Wellington to London, there is a negative easement for Wolverhampton to London..

Although your ticket is from/to Wellington you are still travelling from Wolverhampton - London so I would say that the negative easement still applies

Peter

 

[Safety365]

Thank you to you both. That is most helpful.

 

[yorkie]

I meant Shrewsbury not Stafford for the fares rule - original changed

Ah, that makes sense

Although your ticket is from/to Wellington you are still travelling from Wolverhampton - London so I would say that the negative easement still applies

Peter

That's debatable / open to interpretation!

In situations like this, I would suggest that the negative "easement" is unenforceable but some guards may disagree. But the booking engines also have to 'interpret' the Guide, and easements. Sometimes booking engines behave differently to each other as they may have slightly different interpretations. However in this case, I tried thetrainline and WebTIS and neither will offer tickets via Stafford. Other sites may give different results, only tried those two.

I am aware of some negative "easements" where you can get round them by booking from slightly different stations.

 

[John @ home]

Customers travelling from Wolverhampton to London Euston, in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Stafford. This easement applies in both directions.

There isn't a negative easement for Wellington to London, there is a negative easement for Wolverhampton to London.

Although your ticket is from/to Wellington you are still travelling from Wolverhampton - London so I would say that the negative easement still applies

I don't think this very narrow interpretation withstands scrutiny. It would mean that later this morning the holder of a Crewe to London Terminals route Any Permitted ticket would not be allowed to travel:

07:01 Crewe - (Stafford pass 07:19) - 07:31 Wolverhampton 07:32 - Birmingham New Street 07:55
08:10 Birmingham New Street - London Euston 09:34

 

[OwlMan]

I don't think this very narrow interpretation withstands scrutiny. It would mean that later this morning the holder of a Crewe to London Terminals route Any Permitted ticket would not be allowed to travel:

But whilst travelling from Wolverhampton - London he is not travelling via Stafford.

 

[1V53]

As a guard and with only an Avantix to refer to I wouldn't have the faintest idea and furthermore haven't the foggiest what you lot are all talking about above!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If you check booking engines for Shrewsbury-Euston they will happily offer an any permitted SVR via Wolverhampton and Stafford (higher fare than via Birmingham, and also valid via Crewe). At some times of day the double back via Stafford is actually quicker than going via Birmingham.

 

[EltonRoad]

700131 Customers travelling from Wolverhampton to London Euston, in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may not travel via Stafford. This easement applies in both directions.

In which case why aren't Wolves to London tickets marked "route Birmingham" (or "Not Stafford")? Seems to me the easements aren't widely known or used.

 

[sheff1]

Ah - negative easements - an oxymoron if ever there was one !

However, unless I have misread, none of the mapped routes offers Wolverhampton - Stafford - London anyway, so why has a negative easement been introduced at all ?