Ticket Irregularity report Transpennine- Help!

[l7788889966]

Hi
In the middle of October, I travelled between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Oxford road with a ticket validated by a 16-25 railcard. However, At the time i did not possess a railcard, as i realised when i got home that the payment hadn’t gone through on my laptop. I explained to the ticket inspector that i had a railcard at home and i would be sent a letter by transpennine that i can explain the situation too and resolve without paying any fine. However As i mentioned when i got home i realised the payment on the railcard id tried to by on my laptop had not gone through. I understand this means i will probably have to pay a fine and I am more than willing to do so. Transpennine sent me a letter about 2 days later and i sent one back explaining the situation and apologising. I immediately bought a railcard after i realised but i am extremely concerned about protection. My old railcard that had expired had my photo on and my passport details on but my mums name as id made an error when purchasing it and i never changed it. Does this mean i will be prosecuted for all the trains i got on with the old railcard? I’m extremely anxious about the situation as i cannot afford a huge fare but am so stressed about going to court as well. Please if anyone can give advice i would be so greatful

 

[fandroid]

Welcome to the forum. Others will be on soon to give detailed advice. However, it normally means waiting for the letter from the rail company which then may indicate what they think about the issue.

To give some comfort - it should be possible to avoid a court case, but it will still cost a lot more than renewing the Railcard in time would have cost

 

[30907]

About the old railcard: train companies have taken to investigating purchase history, but if you were entitled to it (your mother probably wasn't!) you have an explanation which I would hope would be accepted. I assume it had your photo on?

 

[JBuchananGB]

Your situation is simply distilled as travelling without a valid ticket. The mix-up with your previous railcard is not a factor. You simply didn't have a valid railcard. I gather you have already made one response to TPE, so now you need to wait for their next move. You can hope that they will treat your encounter as a one-off and offer you an out of court settlement of the unpaid fare and an administrative charge. However they may decide to look at your ticket buying history. I fear that a railcard in your mother's name, whoever's photo it has on it will not cut much ice with them.

 

[Hadders]

I think you need to wait and see what Transpennine say in response to you reply. Once we know this we will be in a better position to advise next steps.

 

[l7788889966]

Hi Thank you so much
The railcard had my photo on and I entered my passport details. The old railcard was completely mine i’d just made an error when adding the name on and never changed it. What does this mean?

 

[l7788889966]

Hello thank you so much.
The railcard did have my photo on and I did enter my passport details, date of birth etc. What does this mean?

 

[l7788889966]

Your situation is simply distilled as travelling without a valid ticket. The mix-up with your previous railcard is not a factor. You simply didn't have a valid railcard. I gather you have already made one response to TPE, so now you need to wait for their next move. You can hope that they will treat your encounter as a one-off and offer you an out of court settlement of the unpaid fare and an administrative charge. However they may decide to look at your ticket buying history. I fear that a railcard in your mother's name, whoever's photo it has on it will not cut much ice with them.

Thank you. I was just wondering if anyone has any idea how they do look into ticket buying history? I don’t have an account on trainline, where i purchase all my tickets but they do get sent to my email

 

[MrJeeves]

where i purchase all my tickets but they do get sent to my email

As a result, they'll still be linked to that email on their end and could be looked up in their systems by that email.

I wouldn't be surprised that if you did make an account using that email they'd automatically appear under your bookings.

 

[l7788889966]

As a result, they'll still be linked to that email on their end and could be looked up in their systems by that email.

I wouldn't be surprised that if you did make an account using that email they'd automatically appear under your bookings.

Thank you. I am incredibly anxious about it and spiralling. I don’t travel between Liverpool and Manchester often and never really use Transpennine. Will they look at the costs from other railway companies or just transpennine?

 

[MrJeeves]

If they can find other instances, they'll likely attempt to reclaim costs for those, too.

Most TOCs have reciprocal agreements with each other to do this for revenue protection purposes.

 

[l7788889966]

If they can find other instances, they'll likely attempt to reclaim costs for those, too.

Most TOCs have reciprocal agreements with each other to do this for revenue protection purposes.

Hi Thanks so much. I’m sorry for all the questions. Will the fact it was registered to me in every sense not weigh into this at all? And how likely is prosecution in this case and do you have any idea how long it will take? I am extremely worried as i can’t afford a huge fine at all. I’m a student and i completely understand this is my fault and in my response i told them how i bought a railcard the same day and wanted to settle the matter asap and am willing to pay any fines to avoid further prosecution. Will any of this weigh into it?

 

[Hadders]

As long as you co-operate with the train company then I'd say prosecution is unlikely, although we cannot rule it out completely as legally they could prosecute if they wanted to.

If yu are offered an out of court settlement it's probably going to cost so this is something you might want to start saving towards.

 

[JBuchananGB]

An Anytime Day Single Liverpool to Manchester valid on TPE costs £17.60. TPE will expect between £100 and £150 to cover their costs of dealing with the matter. If they offer this solution, you should accept it. If they investigate your buying history and find other cases of discounted fares, even on other TOCs, they may factor those in. I'm afraid that if I was in the position of a TOC and you proposed to me that a railcard bought by you but in your mother's name was relevant for journeys made by you before its expiry date, I would infer that you and your mother were involved in fraud, i.e. that you had used your identification to obtain a railcard for your mother to use, even though she is not entitled to it. I would recommend not mentioning this activity as any sort of mitigation.

 

[l7788889966]

An Anytime Day Single Liverpool to Manchester valid on TPE costs £17.60. TPE will expect between £100 and £150 to cover their costs of dealing with the matter. If they offer this solution, you should accept it. If they investigate your buying history and find other cases of discounted fares, even on other TOCs, they may factor those in. I'm afraid that if I was in the position of a TOC and you proposed to me that a railcard bought by you but in your mother's name was relevant for journeys made by you before its expiry date, I would infer that you and your mother were involved in fraud, i.e. that you had used your identification to obtain a railcard for your mother to use, even though she is not entitled to it. I would recommend not mentioning this activity as any sort of mitigation.

No - I used the railcard. It was bought by my mum as i couldnt afford it at the time. My mum never could have used it as it had my photo on and it was registered to my passport details, birth date and photo. It was just an error at the time with the name change on

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Thanks so much. I’m sorry for all the questions. Will the fact it was registered to me in every sense not weigh into this at all? And how likely is prosecution in this case and do you have any idea how long it will take? I am extremely worried as i can’t afford a huge fine at all. I’m a student and i completely understand this is my fault and in my response i told them how i bought a railcard the same day and wanted to settle the matter asap and am willing to pay any fines to avoid further prosecution. Will any of this weigh into it?

If you follow the advice on tis thread when you get the letter that will help get the best outcome of the situation you can I am sure.

However, if you are a student it might be a good idea to see if you can get free help from your student union or college / university Advice / Welfare service who may be able to give you help regarding the situation.

 

[l7788889966]

If they can find other instances, they'll likely attempt to reclaim costs for those, too.

Most TOCs have reciprocal agreements with each other to do this for revenue protection purposes.

Will they just reclaim the original ticket cost?

 

[MrJeeves]

Will they just reclaim the original ticket cost?

Typically you'll be asked to pay anytime singles each way, with no railcard discount if you have one.

Plus an administrative charge, too.

But this all hinges on actually getting an out of court settlement, which you'll want to follow Hadders' advice in.

 

[l7788889966]

Okay thank you so much for all your help. Any idea how long it will take to hear back off them? and how long ill have to pay it?

 

[MrJeeves]

You might have to wait up to 6 months for a letter. If you move between now and that time, you should arrange a mail redirection with Royal Mail.

 

[AlterEgo]

Okay thank you so much for all your help. Any idea how long it will take to hear back off them? and how long ill have to pay it?

If you are offered a settlement you need to pay it very soon after the offer; usually they stipulate 14 to 28 days.

 

[l7788889966]

You might have to wait up to 6 months for a letter. If you move between now and that time, you should arrange a mail redirection with Royal Mail.

I’ve emailed them, before reading this thread and told them i am in between 2 addresses currently. They have agreed to contact me by email so does this mean all correspondence including the details of the fine will be done by email do you reckon? This seems strange as i thought all correspondence had to be done by post

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I’ve emailed them, before reading this thread and told them i am in between 2 addresses currently. They have agreed to contact me by email so does this mean all correspondence including the details of the fine will be done by email do you reckon? This seems strange as i thought all correspondence had to be done by post

If you can resolve this through a settlement out of court, then email should be fine as long as everyone is happy to use it: a settlement out of court is just an informal arrangement between you and the railway.

If the matter moves on to court, then it might be different - there may be rules that the law says must be followed, and by using the Royal Mail it may be possible to formally prove who has sent and who has received what. But I am less sure about that, and would leave crossing that bridge until we come to it.

So for the moment, if you are happy with email, then it's fine.

 

[island]

I’ve emailed them, before reading this thread and told them i am in between 2 addresses currently. They have agreed to contact me by email so does this mean all correspondence including the details of the fine will be done by email do you reckon? This seems strange as i thought all correspondence had to be done by post

It is still very important that you keep them advised of a postal address at which mail can be sent for you to receive, and any changes to it.