• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Will Oxford-Bletchley when constructed be in the Network Railcard Area?

Status
Not open for further replies.

hst43053

Member
Joined
31 Dec 2011
Messages
30
Moderator note - split from:



Anyone know if the route will be absorbed into the network railcard area? Given that both Oxford and Bletchley/MK are in it, it would seem rather daft if not.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

778

Member
Joined
4 May 2020
Messages
700
Location
Hemel Hempstead
Anyone know if the route will be absorbed into the network railcard area? Given that both Oxford and Bletchley/MK are in it, it would seem rather daft if not.
By the time it is open, the network railcard will probably have been axed.
 

12LDA28C

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2022
Messages
5,058
Has anyone proposed this ..

It's been rumoured for years that the Network Railcard will be withdrawn as it's an anachronism in this day and age and there's no real reason for anyone in the South East to be entitled to a discount on fares purely based on geography.
 

mr_jrt

Established Member
Joined
30 May 2011
Messages
1,578
Location
Brighton
They'd be better off giving it national validity or abolishing it and just reducing leisure fares by a third. It's the only thing that makes ludicrously high train fares even remotely viable for leisure travel for most people.
 

Hadders

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
18,153
It's been rumoured for years that the Network Railcard will be withdrawn as it's an anachronism in this day and age and there's no real reason for anyone in the South East to be entitled to a discount on fares purely based on geography.
Increasing leisure fares by 50% would not be popular, especially when many of those fares are far more expensive than in other areas of the country. I'd expect MPs to become involved and see an outcome similar to that of the recent proposal to axe Travelcards.

They'd be better off giving it national validity or abolishing it and just reducing leisure fares by a third. It's the only thing that makes ludicrously high train fares even remotely viable for leisure travel for most people.
I agree that a National Railcard would be a good thing but sadly I can't see it ever happening and they certainly won't reduce leisure fares by a third.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
8,274
And people still need to buy a Network Railcard (or have an annual season ticket) for £30, so it's no giveaway for leisure travellers when you consider the Monday to Friday restrictions, especially the £13 minimum fare.

They do need to review the area though, as it makes no logical sense, e.g. Swindon being outside, and Exeter being allowed on the SWR route, but not the GWR route.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,375
They do need to review the area though, as it makes no logical sense, e.g. Swindon being outside, and Exeter being allowed on the SWR route, but not the GWR route.
Do they? Neither of those things is illogical based on the origin of the railcard. If you look at it the other way, Network Railcard users are lucky to have the area of validity the railway currently offers them.

Swindon, and Exeter via GWR are 'Intercity' routes and therefore outside the scope of the railcard.

As for the original question, Oxford to Bicester and Bletchley to Milton Keynes / Bedford are inside the Network Railcard area. Leaving Bicester to Bletchley outside would seem illogical.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
34,306
They probably haven’t even thought about the normal fares to/from or via Winslow yet, never mind the Network railcard or Gold Card area.

I see there was also a question about applicable rangers and rovers in the construction thread. I’d tend towards thinking that won’t have been looked at yet either.
 

778

Member
Joined
4 May 2020
Messages
700
Location
Hemel Hempstead
Increasing leisure fares by 50% would not be popular, especially when many of those fares are far more expensive than in other areas of the country. I'd expect MPs to become involved and see an outcome similar to that of the recent proposal to axe Travelcards.


I agree that a National Railcard would be a good thing but sadly I can't see it ever happening and they certainly won't reduce leisure fares by a third.
Does the Network Railcard lose revenue for the railway or bring in more revenue? Does encouraging more rail travel and the £30 needed to buy the card make up for reducing fares by a third?
Do they? Neither of those things is illogical based on the origin of the railcard. If you look at it the other way, Network Railcard users are lucky to have the area of validity the railway currently offers them.

Swindon, and Exeter via GWR are 'Intercity' routes and therefore outside the scope of the railcard.

As for the original question, Oxford to Bicester and Bletchley to Milton Keynes / Bedford are inside the Network Railcard area. Leaving Bicester to Bletchley outside would seem illogical.
I think Peterborough should be included in the area.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
8,274
Do they? Neither of those things is illogical based on the origin of the railcard. If you look at it the other way, Network Railcard users are lucky to have the area of validity the railway currently offers them.

Swindon, and Exeter via GWR are 'Intercity' routes and therefore outside the scope of the railcard.

As for the original question, Oxford to Bicester and Bletchley to Milton Keynes / Bedford are inside the Network Railcard area. Leaving Bicester to Bletchley outside would seem illogical.
The Network Railcard may have had its origins with NSE, but the NSE/Intercity divide has been irrelevant for nearly 30 years now, yet the area hasn't been modified to reflect this.

Swindon as I mentioned, is surely more "southeast" than Worcester or King's Lynn for example. If Exeter is included, then it makes no sense for it to be only included if you go from Waterloo rather than Paddington.
 

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
21,972
Location
Airedale
The Network Railcard may have had its origins with NSE, but the NSE/Intercity divide has been irrelevant for nearly 30 years now, yet the area hasn't been modified to reflect this.
The train service pattern hasn't been modified significantly, either.
NSE is still an area with substantial numbers of local stations on its routes
Swindon as I mentioned, is surely more "southeast" than Worcester or King's Lynn for example.
Geographically yes, but the next station is 24 miles East. If Swindon, why not Kemble...
If Exeter is included, then it makes no sense for it to be only included if you go via Salisbury not Taunton from Waterloo rather than Paddington.
IIRC NSE ended at Feniton or somewhere similar - but if you do that, people will simply split or overtravel. As would be the case with Ely or Moreton-in-Marsh.

Boundaries are by their nature arbitrary - I get a better deal going to Steeton than Skipton on the same train.
 

Purple Train

Established Member
Joined
16 Jul 2022
Messages
2,469
Location
Exile or exile
IIRC NSE ended at Feniton or somewhere similar - but if you do that, people will simply split or overtravel. As would be the case with Ely or Moreton-in-Marsh.
It was Whimple, according to the Network Railcard map on the back of the 1987 NSE Kent timetable - or, at least, my copy of it!

Back on topic, I doubt it. If the Network Railcard isn't axed, then I think it will suffer from the same kind of thinking that saw Battersea Power Station thrust uncomfortably into the bright lights of Zone 1.
 

Doctor Fegg

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2010
Messages
2,135
Location
Charlbury
They probably haven’t even thought about the normal fares to/from or via Winslow yet, never mind the Network railcard or Gold Card area.
Given that fares from the Cotswold Line to the Chilterns are still set with the assumption that you'll go via London, seven years after the line via Oxford Parkway opened, I'm sure you're right.
 

jimm

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2012
Messages
5,276
And people still need to buy a Network Railcard (or have an annual season ticket) for £30, so it's no giveaway for leisure travellers when you consider the Monday to Friday restrictions, especially the £13 minimum fare.

They do need to review the area though, as it makes no logical sense, e.g. Swindon being outside, and Exeter being allowed on the SWR route, but not the GWR route.

The Network Railcard may have had its origins with NSE, but the NSE/Intercity divide has been irrelevant for nearly 30 years now, yet the area hasn't been modified to reflect this.

Swindon as I mentioned, is surely more "southeast" than Worcester or King's Lynn for example. If Exeter is included, then it makes no sense for it to be only included if you go from Waterloo rather than Paddington.
The area is perfectly logical, in that it largely reflects where BR's Network South East sector was the main operator of services pre-privatisation - an area that was dictated by BR's internal operational considerations, which is why the likes of Waterloo to Exeter and the King's Lynn route were included. And the intercity/suburban operational divide remains a factor to this day, eg Avanti/LNW out of Euston, LNER/Thameslink/GN out of Kings Cross, GWR's high-speed services group and the 387/Turbo operation in the Thames Valley.

The Cotswold Line between Oxford and Worcester was a rare case of the railcard area being extended, after NSE took over the operation of most services from Regional Railways and reinstated all-day through running to and from London using Turbo sets.

Swindon was not served by NSE, nor subsequent outer-suburban services under Thames Trains, FGW Link, FGW or GWR (at least until next month with several Class 387-operated London-Swindon services being added on Sundays), while in the case of Peterborough, mentioned by 778, few passengers travelling between the city and London used the NSE services, nor the subsequent outer-suburban operators up to TL/Great Northern today (unless those passengers have a lot of time on their hands), in the same way that London-Exeter passengers travelling via Salisbury are thin on the ground.

As for Oxford-Bletchley/MK being added to the railcard zone, who knows? Bedford-Bletchley is included, but the argument could be made that the original rationale for the Network Card was to fill empty seats on off-peak services to and from London, and the East-West route does not fit in with that idea. As it will be operated initially by two-car Class 196s, there may not be all that many empty seats to fill anyway and I expect the DfT will be determined to maximise revenue from day one, so permitting the railcard might not fit with that approach.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top