Single justice procedure notice HELP!!!

[c00pz]

I have received a single justice procedure notice through the post today. Saying i have committed an offence and that i need to go to court. Within this document it says they sent me a letter to settle this matter outside of court. However i didn't receive a letter as such and this is the first im hearing about it.

Also in the letter they have got my d.o.b incorrect and also the day i traveled is incorrect and the witness statement says the incorrect date too.

I rang the courts and tribunals service centre and gave them the reference number. However the reference number on the document isnt in there system and my name isnt on the system too.

Ive tried to ring cross country to get a correct reference number but they cant discuss the matter with me. They gave me a number but it was automated number.

I was just after some help and advice on what to do next and if they is any numbers i can ring to resolve the issue

 

[spag23]

Welcome to the forum.
First (important) question: Are you aware of the incident which it alleges?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@c00pz. Welcome to the forum. Could you possibly upload a copy of the letter, with your name and address (and case reference number) details all suitably covered up? Something doesn't seem quite right here.

 

[GadgetMan]

Try contact details on this page, they look after prosecutions on behalf of XC.

Contact | TIL

transportinvestigations.co.uk

 

[penalty fares]

If you were not the person stopped for travelling you will need to respond to the SJP with a not guilty plea, or it may be heard in the meantime.
Hopefully getting hold of Cross Country customer services, they may be able to provide a prosecutions team number.
If they accept that this was not you then they can get it withdrawn before the court date.
Sending a not guilty please in will stop it being heard now and they will have to set an open court date.
This gives you more time to prove that it was not you.

Before you do any of this though, you appear to know about being stopped for a journey but are contesting the date.
DOB can be a mistake however the date has to reflect the date you were stopped.
Make sure you have all your fact correct before arguing the case. If they have evidence taken at the time pictures or Body Worn Video then you could also open yourself up to other charges.

 

[WesternLancer]

If you were not the person stopped for travelling you will need to respond to the SJP with a not guilty plea, or it may be heard in the meantime.
Hopefully getting hold of Cross Country customer services, they may be able to provide a prosecutions team number.
If they accept that this was not you then they can get it withdrawn before the court date.
Sending a not guilty please in will stop it being heard now and they will have to set an open court date.
This gives you more time to prove that it was not you.

Before you do any of this though, you appear to know about being stopped for a journey but are contesting the date.
DOB can be a mistake however the date has to reflect the date you were stopped.
Make sure you have all your fact correct before arguing the case. If they have evidence taken at the time pictures or Body Worn Video then you could also open yourself up to other charges.

Whilst this sounds like good advice we don't actually know if the OP did commit a ticket offence (and was spoken to about it on a train and details taken) or if this is a case of someone else giving the OP's details when they were stopped.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2023 ==

I have received a single justice procedure notice through the post today. Saying i have committed an offence and that i need to go to court. Within this document it says they sent me a letter to settle this matter outside of court. However i didn't receive a letter as such and this is the first im hearing about it.

Also in the letter they have got my d.o.b incorrect and also the day i traveled is incorrect and the witness statement says the incorrect date too.

I rang the courts and tribunals service centre and gave them the reference number. However the reference number on the document isnt in there system and my name isnt on the system too.

Ive tried to ring cross country to get a correct reference number but they cant discuss the matter with me. They gave me a number but it was automated number.

I was just after some help and advice on what to do next and if they is any numbers i can ring to resolve the issue

Hi - as well as uploading an anonymized copy of your letter can you clarify - does this relate to an incident where you were spoken to on a train (presumably a Cross Country Train) about not having the correct ticket, and you gave your name and (correct) address?
OR
Are you saying you are unaware of any ticketing problems on your travels and this is the first you have heard about it?

In general terms my feeling is that trying to ring places is often a waste of time, and it is better to put it in writing, even if you get through on a phone line you should confirm matters in writing afterwards (so if you speak to someone ask where you should write or e-mail as a follow up)

Whatever stage things have got to with this you will get good advice on here as to how to progress it anyway

 

[c00pz]

@c00pz. Welcome to the forum. Could you possibly upload a copy of the letter, with your name and address (and case reference number) details all suitably covered up? Something doesn't seem quite right here.

Ive just uploaded them now

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@c00pz. So, the fare is/was £107.50, and the journey date was apparently 1st August 2023. Did you travel from Leeds to Elgin on or around that date? That's quite an unusual destination if setting off from/via Leeds.

 

[c00pz]

@c00pz. So, the fare is/was £107.50, and the journey date was apparently 1st August 2023. Did you travel from Leeds to Elgin on or around that date? That's quite an unusual destination if setting off from/via Leeds.

I actually travelled on the day before and purchased a ticket aswell

 

[Gloster]

Are you sure that your ticket was dated for the day that you actually travelled?

A long shot. Did you buy a ticket for one day, then travel the day before with or without buying a new ticket? And, if so, could you have shown the wrong day’s ticket?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I actually travelled on the day before and purchased a ticket aswell

But did you purchased a rail card reduced ticket without actually having a railcard?

 

[c00pz]

Are you sure that your ticket was dated for the day that you actually travelled?

A long shot. Did you buy a ticket for one day, then travel the day before with or without buying a new ticket? And, if so, could you have shown the wrong day’s ticket?

I The ticket was dated for the correct day. I didn't travel on the 1st August as i was back in work and have proof of me been there

 

[WesternLancer]

I The ticket was dated for the correct day. I didn't travel on the 1st August as i was back in work and have proof of me been there

Hi - As per my earlier question - have you been questioned about ticket validity on a train around that time (ie could they have just made a mistake on the exact date)?
or are you saying this was not you and someone has given your details - ie tried to impersonate you.?

Sorry - but it's not very clear to readers what has happened to result in court summons

Tho a likely thing is that they did send you an earlier letter but for whatever reason it never reached you and this has simply escalated to the next stage which is court action.

 

[c00pz]

If you were not the person stopped for travelling you will need to respond to the SJP with a not guilty plea, or it may be heard in the meantime.
Hopefully getting hold of Cross Country customer services, they may be able to provide a prosecutions team number.
If they accept that this was not you then they can get it withdrawn before the court date.
Sending a not guilty please in will stop it being heard now and they will have to set an open court date.
This gives you more time to prove that it was not you.

Before you do any of this though, you appear to know about being stopped for a journey but are contesting the date.
DOB can be a mistake however the date has to reflect the date you were stopped.
Make sure you have all your fact correct before arguing the case. If they have evidence taken at the time pictures or Body Worn Video then you could also open yourself up to other charges.

I would have paid the fine if i had received the letter. However i didn't and its now gone to SJP and im looking at a criminal record. I rang the cross country but they couldn't help me as its going to SJP.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Nov 2023 ==

Hi - As per my earlier question - have you been questioned about ticket validity on a train around that time (ie could they have just made a mistake on the exact date)?
or are you saying this was not you and someone has given your details - ie tried to impersonate you.?

Sorry - but it's not very clear to readers what has happened to result in court summons

Tho a likely thing is that they did send you an earlier letter but for whatever reason it never reached you and this has simply escalated to the next stage which is court action.

Apologies im new to this. It was me on the train and i didn't receive any letter until this one now which is resulting in court action

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I would have paid the fine if i had received the letter.

Why would you have paid the "fine" or other monies demanded, had you received a previous letter? What do you reckon that you may have done (or not done?)

When did you actually travel to/from Elgin. What tickets did you have exactly? Not sure we're getting the full picture here.

 

[fandroid]

You're being very coy. From what you say it seems as if you were legitimately stopped and had your details taken. It's tricky for us to advise if we don't know what you might have done wrong.

 

[skyhigh]

I would have paid the fine if i had received the letter.

This is making no sense.

You say you didn't travel that day, and when you did travel you had a ticket. Yet you would have paid the fine?

It was me on the train and i didn't receive any letter until this one now which is resulting in court action

What happened on the train? Please provide full details as it's impossible to help with the way you've been drip feeding information so far.

 

[c00pz]

..

 

[spag23]

So did the OP actually have a valid Railcard for that journey (ie in date, and for the right time of day), but just had issues presenting it in full?

 

[fandroid]

Several questions come to mind:

1. Is it an age-related Railcard?
2. If so, do you actually qualify?
3. Does the incorrect dob they seem to have mean that they think your Railcard wasn't valid?
4. Have you found the other part of the Railcard?

Whatever the answers are, it is also essential that you get hold of TIL and tell them you've had no previous letter, plus the details in the charge being incorrect.

 

[Haywain]

Several questions come to mind:

1. Is it an age-related Railcard?
2. If so, do you actually qualify?
3. Does the incorrect dob they seem to have mean that they think your Railcard wasn't valid?
4. Have you found the other part of the Railcard?

Whatever the answers are, it is also essential that you get hold of TIL and tell them you've had no previous letter, plus the details in the charge being incorrect.

Further to this:
5. Is the railcard still in date?
6. Do you have the receipt from when it was purchased (the leaflet with railcard number and station stamp)?

 

[c00pz]

Several questions come to mind:

1. Is it an age-related Railcard?
2. If so, do you actually qualify?
3. Does the incorrect dob they seem to have mean that they think your Railcard wasn't valid?
4. Have you found the other part of the Railcard?

Whatever the answers are, it is also essential that you get hold of TIL and tell them you've had no previous letter, plus the details in the charge being incorrect.

It is an HM forces
I do qualify for it
I have since renewed the rail card

Who is the TIL and how contact them ?

 

[skyhigh]

It is an HM forces
I do qualify for it
I have since renewed the rail card

You said you have since renewed the railcard. Was it in date when you travelled?

 

[jfollows]

Who is the TIL and how contact them ?

Home | TIL

transportinvestigations.co.uk

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Looking at the paperwork you've been sent, the 'Frequently asked questions' sheet says

Can I settle the case out of Court?

CrossCountry Trains is only willing to settle out of Court in cases where you can demonstrate 'exceptional mitigating circumstances.' If you feel that such cir0cumstances are present please put these reasons in writing to CrossCountry Trains, by email or post, along with any supporting evidence

And the Charge Sheet tells you that the Charge was authorised by

Ryan Leather
Prosecutions Department
ITAL
Regus
Building 1000
Lakeside North Harbour
Western road
Portsmouth
PO6 3EZ

(N.B. above quotes manually typed by me, so any errors down to me!)

It seems to me that you may have 'exceptional mitigating circumstances' in that for whatever reason you never got the letter asking for your side of the story. I'll come on to the errors in the charge and witness statement in a moment or two.

I suggest that you write to Mr Leather,
- explaining that you believe that you have exceptional mitigating circumstances
- this is because you never received a letter asking for your side of the story
- had you had that letter, you would have explained that you had lost one part of your railcard (n.b. that's what I understand you to say - obviously only say what's true)
- you are very sorry for your mistake
- to make sure it doesn't happen again, you have now got a new, fully intact railcard
- you would like if possible to settle this matter out of court by payment of the train fare and the costs that the railway has incurred (n.b. the train fare will be the full train fare, and the costs will be a couple of hundred pounds or so: this is not cheap but it's cheaper than what you may be fined in court)
- you would also draw the railway's attention to a number of errors in the charge sheet and witness statement, most particularly that they appear to refer to a different day from the incident involving you. If the matter proceeds to court, you will have to mention these errors to the magistrates as you will need to do what you can to defend yourself.

Time is short, so make sure you send this letter first class, and also arrange for it to be signed for so that you can be certain that it has got to CrossCountry. I'd also suggest (since you seem to be in the forces) that you mention this matter to your commander/manager/whatever. I suspect that the forces have on occasion dealt with much more serious offences - but it's probably better that they find out from you rather than from getting a letter from the court!

 

[Mojo]

Try contact details on this page, they look after prosecutions on behalf of XC.

Contact | TIL

transportinvestigations.co.uk

Several questions come to mind:

1. Is it an age-related Railcard?
2. If so, do you actually qualify?
3. Does the incorrect dob they seem to have mean that they think your Railcard wasn't valid?
4. Have you found the other part of the Railcard?

Whatever the answers are, it is also essential that you get hold of TIL and tell them you've had no previous letter, plus the details in the charge being incorrect.

Home | TIL

transportinvestigations.co.uk

Why are people advising the OP to contact TIL? As per the letter the OP has attached, it appears this is being dealt with by Ital Group Ltd rather than TIL.

 

[WesternLancer]

It is an HM forces
I do qualify for it
I have since renewed the rail card

Who is the TIL and how contact them ?

OK - thanks for sharing more info.

TIL are Transport Investigations Ltd (they act on revenue protection for some train companies including Cross Country (XC)
But sometimes Cross Country deal with it directly - so I think you need to contact both of them in the same manner unless you know it is TIL who have sent this to court on behalf of XC

You have some time before it gets to court

People will advise you here and correct me but what I think you need to do now, ASAP, and you need to do this in writing is write the same letter or e-mail to TIL and XC with your name and address and any ref numbers from the court papers and

You need to say along these lines:

- You have received court papers (enclose copies if you can)
- This was the first you had heard about the case, but you believe it may possibly relate to an HM Forces Railcard that you were asked for on a journey on X date between Leeds and Elgin
- You understand that you would usually be written to and asked for you (as the passenger's) version of events but you never received any such letter
- That you are anxious to co-operate with them and also anxious to avoid the matter being dealt with at court if this is at all possible
- Ask them if you can have a copy of anything they previously sent to you so as to have the opportunity to respond to that as quickly as possible


If you want people to help check your letter or e-mail then draft it up here without the ref numbers / your name etc

Is it possible that as a serving forces person you have moved address since the incident and the post they sent you before may not have got to you - make sure they have a reliable address for you now that they can write to you at (did the court papers have the correct address?)

EDIT - just seen @Fawkes Cat post above which I think is clearer suggestion on way forward / content then mine above so go with that - tho I think we are basically suggesting same next course of action.

 

[GadgetMan]

Why are people advising the OP to contact TIL? As per the letter the OP has attached, it appears this is being dealt with by Ital Group Ltd rather than TIL.

The letter was attached later. Originally all we knew was the OP was dealing with XC who wouldn't discuss the matter with him, so I suggested "trying" TIL as that may have been more fruitful.

 

[swt_passenger]

In the record of interview they have a included an answer:

”yes. they took the money out my bank but that’s all they gave me”

Does that fit your case? Money for the railcard, or money for your fare?

 

[fandroid]

ITAL appears to be a transport software solutions company. But as the address given doesn't appear to relate to the very similar TIL, the OP is advised to take the address at face value and write to Mr Leather there.

I have checked their website. ITAL group has the same Portsmouth address as on the SJPN, and they "process" appeals on behalf of transport companies