Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[TheSel]

At least that means no cancellations from Liverpool to Southport between 17h and 19h, since the 18:36 from Hunts Cross won't reach the centre of Liverpool until after 7pm.

Not quite. The 18:36 from Hunts Cross is the now-missing 18:53 from Liverpool Central to Southport. The following 18:51 (19:08 from Liverpool Central) may be a little 'cosy'!

 

[Along the bay]

Been on one of these for the first time today, are the announcements usually this quiet? I could barely hear them over the train itself. Else, the 777 is a worthy successor to classes 507/508.

 

[507021]

Been on one of these for the first time today, are the announcements usually this quiet? I could barely hear them over the train itself. Else, the 777 is a worthy successor to classes 507/508.

Unfortunately yes, the tannoy seems to have been specified as barely audible.

 

[M28361M]

On Mondays-Fridays, there will be four trains cancelled from Southport to Hunts Cross (12:39, 17:24, 19:54, 22:54).

That Merseyrail page is a bit confusing as there is no 22:54 from Southport. There is a 22:57 but Realtime Trains shows it is running today, not cancelled.

 

[Along the bay]

Unfortunately yes, the tannoy seems to have been specified as barely audible.

That's rather unfortunate.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That's rather unfortunate.

A rather nice change from Greater Anglia's new fleet though, where "WELCOME to this service, too: " makes me jump every time at a ridiculous volume. TfW's absolutely hideous new voice is way too loud too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2023 ==

the number of accepted 777s won't matter one jot until the platform alteration works at Southport have been completed

If they take much longer I wouldn't put it past them to sack off the 50x anyway and simply run crowded 4 cars exclusively until it's done.

 

[Peter Sarf]

A rather nice change from Greater Anglia's new fleet though, where "WELCOME to this service, too: " makes me jump every time at a ridiculous volume. TfW's absolutely hideous new voice is way too loud too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Nov 2023 ==


If they take much longer I wouldn't put it past them to sack off the 50x anyway and simply run crowded 4 cars exclusively until it's done.

I did not get the impression last week that Merseyrail have anywhere near enough 777s. Plenty are not even delivered yet afaikt - maybe 40% ?.

Given how long in the tooth the 507s are (I think most 508s have gone already) I can see cancellations on top of short forms.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I did not get the impression last week that Merseyrail have anywhere near enough 777s. Plenty are not even delivered yet afaikt - maybe 40%.

I seem to recall they need to get rid of 50x to make room for more to arrive?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I seem to recall they need to get rid of 50x to make room for more to arrive?

Could be. Merseyrail won't want to risk deliveries until the 777s they already have are more reliable than the 507s they are replacing !.

 

[ExRes]

I seem to recall they need to get rid of 50x to make room for more to arrive?

And as far as I'm aware there are three units at Walton and the three at Wembley all twiddling their thumbs couplers

 

[Peter Sarf]

And as far as I'm aware there are three units at Walton and the three at Wembley all twiddling their thumbs couplers

Yes that does tend to indicate a lack of space on Merseyside and a reluctance to get rid of the older trains.

There will also be the factor that even if the 777s are perfect Merseyrail only have so much resources to use on acceptance testing of each 777.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The three latest arrivals in the UK were at Wembley as of last Friday, not sure whether they've transferred to Merseyside yet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There will also be the factor that even if the 777s are perfect Merseyrail only have so much resources to use on acceptance testing of each 777.

Given that Merseyrail doesn't come under the same control as other TOCs, and given that it's done this on the Kirkby line, I can't see anything that would prevent them dropping the public service on the whole network substantially (e.g. to 2tph) to accelerate crew training and testing, or simply because they have insufficient 508s remaining.

 

[507021]

There won't be any short forming of Southport peak time services, they will be operated by paired 507s until the platform alteration works are completed. It would be absolutely bonkers to operate the network's busiest services with a single unit, whether a 50x or 777.

 

[Sam 76]

There won't be any short forming of Southport peak time services, they will be operated by paired 507s until the platform alteration works are completed. It would be absolutely bonkers to operate the network's busiest services with a single unit, whether a 50x or 777.

You say that, but that’s exactly what they are doing every morning at the moment. The 7:39 hasn’t been 6 cars for 2.5 weeks

 

[507021]

You say that, but that’s exactly what they are doing every morning at the moment. The 7:39 hasn’t been 6 cars for 2.5 weeks

A wholly unacceptable situation, one for which 777 unreliability and premature scrapping of 50x units is clearly to blame. These factors have led to essential 50x six car services being reduced to bail out demic 777s on other services, which is absolute lunacy. There really needs to be a review into this absolute farce, but I won't get my hopes up.

 

[Sam 76]

A wholly unacceptable situation, one for which 777 unreliability and premature scrapping of 50x units is clearly to blame. These factors have led to essential 50x six car services being reduced to bail out demic 777s on other services, which is absolute lunacy. There really needs to be a review into this absolute farce, but I won't get my hopes up.

If anything like they did on the Ormskirk services, it wouldn’t surprise me if the 777s end up on the 6 car diagrams. Takes out 2 units at once, with the attitude that 4 cars can’t be worse than 3

 

[Kite159]

8 coach running can't come soon enough, saw a very heavily loaded 777 on Saturday on the Chester line leaving passengers behind by Eastham Rake, with the 777 from Ellesmere Port following not much better by the time it reached Rock Ferry. I dread to think what the 507 following from Chester would have been like.

I guess when the trains are crush-loaded the guard gets trapped by the doors, rather than being able to go into the back cab?

 

[jamesst]

8 coach running can't come soon enough, saw a very heavily loaded 777 on Saturday on the Chester line leaving passengers behind by Eastham Rake, with the 777 from Ellesmere Port following not much better by the time it reached Rock Ferry. I dread to think what the 507 following from Chester would have been like.

I guess when the trains are crush-loaded the guard gets trapped by the doors, rather than being able to go into the back cab?

Sadly crush loading on the Chester line on a Saturday has been very common for a long time, just in the past it was on 3 car 507/8s

 

[L401CJF]

8 coach running can't come soon enough, saw a very heavily loaded 777 on Saturday on the Chester line leaving passengers behind by Eastham Rake, with the 777 from Ellesmere Port following not much better by the time it reached Rock Ferry. I dread to think what the 507 following from Chester would have been like.

I guess when the trains are crush-loaded the guard gets trapped by the doors, rather than being able to go into the back cab?

The guards arnt allowed in the cab on 777s in service except for emergency reasons apparently. They can't tap the door fob to give the driver the all clear in the cab either as far as I know.

 

[ExRes]

And as far as I'm aware there are three units at Walton and the three at Wembley all twiddling their thumbs couplers

Schedule in for this afternoon, 1352 0Z43 power cars to Tyseley so no movement from either Walton or Wembley on the cards

 

[Geeves]

One of the three sat waiting at Wembley is now nicely painted in a variety of colours.

 

[Vinnym]

Was on 1549 Ormskirk to Liverpool Central sat at Maghull for 17 mins due to train in front broke down. The train in question terminated at Sandhills as did the 1549 according to RTT yet Merseyrail website saying Good Service. After all these months still can’t run a reliable service, time for Merseyrail to get their heads out the sand

 

[Jamesrob637]

One of the three sat waiting at Wembley is now nicely painted in a variety of colours.

So it's easy to trespass there then

 

[507021]

Yesterday morning, I travelled on 777005 to Bache to meet someone to go for a run. Within five minutes, I wish I'd taken my car instead. The main lighting went out for varying amounts of minutes at least four or five times, which left the unit feeling rather gloomy despite the large windows and it being a beautiful morning. The seats were dreadful as always, but there's nothing new there. The newer is better mindset really is an absolute fallacy.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Yesterday morning, I travelled on 777005 to Bache to meet someone to go for a run. Within five minutes, I wish I'd taken my car instead. The main lighting went out for varying amounts of minutes at least four or five times, which left the unit feeling rather gloomy despite the large windows and it being a beautiful morning. The seats were dreadful as always, but there's nothing new there. The newer is better mindset really is an absolute fallacy.

Try one on a muggy July afternoon and you'll welcome the air-con, especially if you've had a run beforehand!

 

[Vinnym]

As a regular traveller on the Ormskirk line, mostly off peak, I don’t hear many negative comments about seats, lighting, air con or poor info panel and announcements. The main gripe is reliability which at present is totally unacceptable.
Six car trains have disappeared on the Ormskirk line with the full introduction of the 777, so at peak times the four cars are crush loaded especially leaving Central late afternoon. Patience is wearing thin with regular travellers and it’s about time Merseyrail got their act together and provide a service that travellers deserve

 

[karlbbb]

Unit pulled off the Ormskirk line this morning, shortly after 1105, and still hasn't been replaced. Are there really no spare units that could have been out on the line as replacement?

 

[A60stock]

Why has a decision been made to replace 6 car workings by the PEPs BEFORE the 777s are able to run in pairs?

When will paired 777 running start?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Why has a decision been made to replace 6 car workings by the PEPs BEFORE the 777s are able to run in pairs?

When will paired 777 running start?

I think "decision" is giving more credit than is due !.

Basically the 777s have not entered service as quickly and smoothly as expected. The 507s and particularly 508s are worn out. Maintenance has mainly stopped as the depots switch over to 777s. So the remaining old units are getting less reliable but probably still more reliable than the 777s ?. The inevitable result is that there is a shortage of trains to operate the services. Short forming is inevitable.

There is apparently a shortage of spares for the old units (507 & 508). The old units were supposed to be gone so is makes sense there would be no desire to make or keep unnecessary spares.

I think on one line the platforms are not yet ready to take the slightly longer trains when switched to pairs of 777s but that is not really the problem (yet).