What SE mainline order? Electrostars have 20 years yet.
Hmm, my [admittedly very limited] understanding was that those with conflicting interests have to declare this...
As @JonathanH says the Class 375/376/377 have at least another 20 years yet with South Eastern and there is no need to be replacing the class 395 units either as those have another 20 plus years as well.
What surplus units?
The timetable on SWR is reduced from what was originally planned when the 701s were ordered.
They might enable the rest of the /9s and 466s to go though. 100 465s for 8-car workings would be a reasonable position.
They wouldn’t replace the 465/466s… probably due to every train having to be accessible to people in wheelchairs, which I don’t think they were when they got withdrawn!
It sounds more likely to be the other way, with possibly a small number of 377s going back to Southern in the longer term. 701s could be a much cheaper option than new stock given SWR are committed to paying for them regadless. If there's sufficient numbers it seems sensible for one of Southern or Southeastern to take them. Doing that could avoid the need for 379s with other stock shuffles if the price wasn't good enough in the recent Great Northern tender or reduce the amount of new stock needing to be built.
Seriously, I'd rather have a networker. I just have grim memories of them.
So you assume.
You then have four separate fleets of 701 Aventras, 707 Desiro Cities, 376 Electrostars and 465/0/1 Networkers all on the same routes, different ages, some have toilets and some don’t, some have air con and some don’t, some 4 some 5 some 10 carriages long, it’d just be so unnecessarily complex.
Yes, clearly that is just an opinion. You may have a different view, but wishing trains out of service that are only 20 years old, and, crucially, in the case of Electrostars, remain appropriate for the job they do, is very wasteful, particularly as rolling stock design has not moved on significantly in that time.
Indeed, that is awkward. I note that Southeastern does have routes where the maximum length is 160m and others where 200m fits, and similar issues with sidings, so whatever happens there will be a mix of lengths.
I think surplus 701s would be better off going to Southern (doesn't mean I see it happening), given they are both more stretched for stock and as you imply Southeastern is more reliant on multiples of 4, not 5. 707s and 376s do 10 car trains enough, Southeastern need more 8s and 12s.
Yes I don’t want them out of service either, but we cannot predict that they’ll be kept for the length of time they perhaps should be, as seen by 350/2, 379 and perhaps even 175.
Surplus 701s will most likely be used on current 8-450 Alton & Basingstoke diagrams to allow those 450s to make sure the 458s aren’t required. SWR have said they, disgracefully, plan to mothball them.
To be fair mh post was meant to have Devil emoji on it butvthey didn't post.
Vivarail went bust, they'd need to speak to GWR
I thought that class 458 units where being kept to work Waterloo - Portsmouth services in place of the class 442 units?
Unless Alstom build a version of Aventra that is shorter than the 5 coach class 720 units, I don't think that they have an answer to the problem. The only real answer I see is Stadler Flirt, which in four car length is 80.7m. However, the units will have to have a gangeway at the front so that they could couple to other units and enable walkthrough when coupled.
That product exists - Class 710.
Fair point and like the class 465/466 it is limited to 75mph.
Class 710, without a pantograph, works for the basic train, but going all the way to a fully longitudinal seating layout may be a step too far for the Southeastern routes. An interior a bit more like the 730/1s, or a mix of longitudinal and transverse seating, may be better.
