Fare Evasion

[Andyvanh1]

Earlier this year, I was on the tube when my phone unexpectedly ran out of battery. When I got out, I talked to the TFL workers there, and they told me that they would mail me so that I could pay the fare. I never received this, and last month I received a letter saying they will be charging me with a criminal offense. I have made my appeal but they haven’t gotten back to me yet. How likely would this end up in court? and How long should I expect to wait until I hear back?

would something this minor really be taken that seriously?? I am really quite worried.

 

[Gloster]

I think we will need to see the letter. Please download a copy so that the experts can read it, but MAKE SURE you obscure your name, address and any other identifying details, such as reference numbers.

 

[Andyvanh1]

I think we will need to see the letter. Please download a copy so that the experts can read it, but MAKE SURE you obscure your name, address and any other identifying details, such as reference numbers.

I think I may have lost the letter. Would that be a problem?

 

[Haywain]

would something this minor really be taken that seriously?? I am really quite worried.

To TfL this will look like fare dodging and they will take it seriously. There is a strong possibility that you will be prosecuted in court.

 

[Andyvanh1]

To TfL this will look like fare dodging and they will take it seriously. There is a strong possibility that you will be prosecuted in court.

Do you know how long I should expect for them to get back at me?

 

[furlong]

Well first of all, what actually happened? Was this at the start or end of the journey? Did you touch in but not out or not at all? Had you reached any caps that day? etc.

 

[Andyvanh1]

Well first of all, what actually happened? Was this at the start or end of the journey? Did you touch in but not out or not at all? Had you reached any caps that day? etc.

It was the end of the journey, I tapped in but not out. What does “reaches any caps” mean?

 

[John R]

If you tapped in but not out, did you get a maximum charge applied to your account for not tapping out?

“Reaching any caps” refers to the concept of a daily (or weekly) cap on your total fare if you make several journeys during the day.

 

[furlong]

OK, so where had you tapped in? What sort of payment method? e.g. Google pay with a credit card or?
Do you have an online account with TFL linked to this? If not, you can create one and it should show you that tap in.

 

[AlterEgo]

Earlier this year, I was on the tube when my phone unexpectedly ran out of battery. When I got out, I talked to the TFL workers there, and they told me that they would mail me so that I could pay the fare. I never received this, and last month I received a letter saying they will be charging me with a criminal offense. I have made my appeal but they haven’t gotten back to me yet. How likely would this end up in court? and How long should I expect to wait until I hear back?

would something this minor really be taken that seriously?? I am really quite worried.

What did the letter say? Was it a summons to court, or was it merely asking for your side of the story?

Were you charged a maximum fare for this day's travel?

 

[Haywain]

Well first of all, what actually happened? Was this at the start or end of the journey? Did you touch in but not out or not at all? Had you reached any caps that day? etc.

I don't believe that a daily cap would ever apply to an incomplete journey charge.

 

[Andyvanh1]

If you tapped in but not out, did you get a maximum charge applied to your account for not tapping out?

“Reaching any caps” refers to the concept of a daily (or weekly) cap on your total fare if you make several journeys during the day.

I didn’t get a maximum charge, I got a “charged based on a recent journey you made”.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2023 ==

What did the letter say? Was it a summons to court, or was it merely asking for your side of the story?

Were you charged a maximum fare for this day's travel?

It just says “you have been charged with a criminal offense” and tells me to make a plea. I wasn’t charged a maximum fare, but a “charge based on other information”, and it was from London Fields.

 

[John R]

I didn’t get a maximum charge, I got a “charged based on a recent journey you made”.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Nov 2023 ==


It just says “you have been charged with a criminal offense” and tells me to make a plea. I wasn’t charged a maximum fare, but a “charge based on other information”, and it was from London Fields.

So they have taken a fare for the journey. Interesting. Was it the correct fare for the journey you took?

 

[Andyvanh1]

So they have taken a fare for the journey. Interesting. Was it the correct fare for the journey you took?

I am not sure. My journey was London Fields to Liverpool street. The one it assumed was to Kings cross. It should be the same right? Since they’re in the same zone.

 

[furlong]

In your "appeal", did you give them details of your card and a screenshot of what the system shows you there?

(What you should have done, a couple of days after the incident, is phoned the helpdesk and got the journey corrected to Liverpool St.)

 

[John R]

I am not sure. My journey was London Fields to Liverpool street. The one it assumed was to Kings cross. It should be the same right? Since they’re in the same zone.

Yes, it is the same fare to either of those.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

What normally happens with people who are reported to TfL is they are sent a Verification Letter. This is an initial letter asking whether you confirm or deny the offence, and asks you to give any mitigation before they decide how to proceed. Did you get this letter? Is it the one you've lost? What did you say in your reply to them? Have you still got a copy of what you sent them?

I suspect that what you are calling an appeal is the reply you sent to their verification letter. If TfL don't receive a reply, or one that is not satisfactory, then prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the normal result. This is what I suspect is happening here but to be sure we need to see copies of all the paperwork you've been sent (do redact any personal details before posting).

 

[Snow1964]

It seems we have to parts running in parallel

1) You tapped in, but didn't tap out, journey got auto-completed to Kings Cross, but you actually exited earlier at Liverpool Street in same fare zone.

2) Some sort of criminal conviction letter, (which you need to post with reference numbers and personal details blanked out) also exists, but currently it is unclear if this relates to same journey, or another journey, or what you are being charged with.

My guess is because TfL have it on their system as you left and spoke at Liverpool Street, but the auto complete allocated different station they are not connecting the two, (they have thousands of cases, you have one, so obvious to you, but not them).

To best of my knowledge it is not criminal to not inform TfL that an auto-complete got wrong station, but correct exit fare station. You have already been charged the correct fare.

My guess (ahead of seeing the letter) is have to deny any charge and return evidence saying journey was paid for and autocompleted to same fare, so TfL can match your exit to the already done auto-complete. (There is probably a long reference number on auto complete on the history, if can't get this copy your bank statement showing paid that day). But really seeing the letter will allow others to gives best response wording

 

[Haywain]

It is important that we bear in mind that an offence having been alleged is not necessarily negated by the fact that a fare has been taken. Without seeing what offence is alleged to have been committed I don't believe we can say that the auto completion of the journey provides a valid defence. It is therefore important that the OP allows us to see the letter that was received from TfL and the OP's response to that.

 

[furlong]

It is important that we bear in mind that an offence having been alleged is not necessarily negated by the fact that a fare has been taken.

Indeed - but not all offences lead to prosecutions, and there are hints here that this one might fall into that category of policy.