Aslef strikes and OT ban called…

[D Williams]

For the fourth year running the public face having their festive travel plans disrupted. Two years because of Covid restrictions and the other two because either or both of the two Micks have decided to play Scrooge.

So much for the season of goodwill....!

It's all about an attempt at face-saving by the union bosses. They've lost the battle so may as well wait until a Labour government is installed , then it will be back to beer and sandwiches at No 10 . Another throw back to the good old days.

 

[1D54]

I was desperately hoping that this would be sorted long before the next GE especially with potential movement on the RMT front.

Beer and sandwiches at number 10 under a Labour Government? Those days are long gone, never to return and i don't remember them as being good old days!

 

[mandub]

It's all about an attempt at face-saving by the union bosses. They've lost the battle so may as well wait until a Labour government is installed , then it will be back to beer and sandwiches at No 10 . Another throw back to the good old days.

Aslef would likely welcome an approach from Govt with a similar offer to the RMT.
We've been told they have had no contact whatsoever from RDG.
It's not about saving face.

 

[Facing Back]

Aslef would likely welcome an approach from Govt with a similar offer to the RMT.
We've been told they have had no contact whatsoever from RDG.
It's not about saving face.

I've lost track - I think I recall that the RDG had given their offer and were not bothered about further talks until ASLEF had put it to their members. ASLEF are not putting to their members so we're at stalemate - at least publicly.

I think that there is an element of saving face - on both sides. It's hard to back down on an entrenched position after all this time without losing face and weakening your position unless you find a clever way of doing it.

I could understand that the RDG/DfT would want to see the result of the change of phasing to the RMT dispute plays out before going back on their stated position with ASLEF.

 

[Goldfish62]

They've lost the battle so may as well wait until a Labour government is installed , then it will be back to beer and sandwiches at No 10 . Another throw back to the good old days.

In case you haven't noticed the change in Labour that's going to happen.

 

[Kells21]

need this sorting seems like it’s never gona happen

 

[Snow1964]

Avanti West Coast will also be much more likely to experience disruption when WMT, CrossCountry, Northern and TransPennine Express are disrupted because their staff are unable to pass or get to work on them.

Surely it is up to employees to find their own way into work and be on time, just as it is for the other 30m workers in UK. They have contract of employment and are expected to turn up in exchange for being paid.

They can hardly claim difficulty when that is what applies to rest of the public, some of which won't have cars etc.

 

[Magdalen Road]

Maybe this time things will be different and the poorly paid drivers get a well deserved pay rise for working very hard during Covid...

...and all those poor office workers being forced to work from home rather than facing the daily commute and leisure users go "Oh another strike, how boring"

And once again, those of us who have to train commute to work face more stress about how to get in (or taking annual leave, paying for accommodation, making time up).

 

[Starmill]

Surely it is up to employees to find their own way into work and be on time, just as it is for the other 30m workers in UK. They have contract of employment and are expected to turn up in exchange for being paid.

They can hardly claim difficulty when that is what applies to rest of the public, some of which won't have cars etc.

In contract yes obviously. But contract and practice are different things.

 

[DMckduck]

Don't even think ASLEF have issued any press releases or put it on their website.

All you will find on their website is this, which makes it clear it is a pay dispute due to inflation, nothing about any T&Cs dispute which some posters mistakenly seem think is the case.

Fair Pay: Stand with Train Drivers | ASLEF

DISPUTE RESOLVED Train Drivers deserve fair pay that keeps up with the cost of living

aslef.org.uk

ASLEF need to correct this because its factually incorrect now which is not good for getting the public on side. SWR are part of this dispute now and they had a deal agreed just as covid hit (which is also why it wasn't in the news then) up to and including 2022.

So surely a truthful press release is a good start

 

[newtownmgr]

It's all about an attempt at face-saving by the union bosses. They've lost the battle so may as well wait until a Labour government is installed , then it will be back to beer and sandwiches at No 10 . Another throw back to the good old days.

The unions haven’t lost, in fact it’s the government that have climbed down & made a sensible offer to the RMT with the changes that the RMT suggested to move the dispute forward. No offer yet to aslef as i suspect they are playing the waiting game to see if the RMT accept the revised offer & the ASLEF re ballot returns another strike mandate. Both ballots finish on the 30th Nov

 

[footprints]

Same reasons all industrial action short of a strike has unforseen consequences, consequences you generally don't experience from the mere absence of an agreement on rest day work. In any case we know for sure that Avanti have insufficient drivers to cover their diagrams during December because if they did they wouldn't have announced they were withdrawing some services anyway.

Avanti West Coast will also be much more likely to experience disruption when WMT, CrossCountry, Northern and TransPennine Express are disrupted because their staff are unable to pass or get to work on them.

Not disputing Avanti have a shortage of drivers but the December cutbacks only highlight that drivers aren't working overtime regardless of the Aslef blanket bans across all TOCs in the dispute. They've run their full timetable during previous overtime bans so there's no reason this next overtime ban will impact them anymore than usual, especially with them having already reduced the timetable.

 

[Facing Back]

In contract yes obviously. But contract and practice are different things.

What are the practices of the TOCs and NR on staff who have difficulty getting to work due to strikes?

 

[Fokx]

For the fourth year running the public face having their festive travel plans disrupted. Two years because of Covid restrictions and the other two because either or both of the two Micks have decided to play Scrooge.

So much for the season of goodwill....!

If someone is celebrating the festive season for the entirety of December, particularly for the first week whilst simultaneously travelling from one part of England to the next on various TOCS in a particular order that matches the strike days, then they have both too much time and money on their hands.

Goodwill doesn’t pay the mortgage

 

[baz962]

I've lost track - I think I recall that the RDG had given their offer and were not bothered about further talks until ASLEF had put it to their members. ASLEF are not putting to their members so we're at stalemate - at least publicly.

I think that there is an element of saving face - on both sides. It's hard to back down on an entrenched position after all this time without losing face and weakening your position unless you find a clever way of doing it.

I could understand that the RDG/DfT would want to see the result of the change of phasing to the RMT dispute plays out before going back on their stated position with ASLEF.

Pointless putting it to the members as they no the members won't say yes. And for the goodness knows how many times. They (rdg/ government)are asking for a change in terms and conditions in a one size fits all package , when they know that every company has different terms and conditions anyway and some companies won't have them to give up.

 

[Fokx]

What are the practices of the TOCs and NR on staff who have difficulty getting to work due to strikes?

At TOC level the TOC will pay for a staff taxi (where public transport and own vehicle isn’t an option).

 

[dk1]

What are the practices of the TOCs and NR on staff who have difficulty getting to work due to strikes?

This has come up before on here. It’s normally up to the individual to ensure they can get to/from work as this is not the employer’s responsibility. There are however a few exceptions.

 

[baz962]

Actually in s

In contract yes obviously. But contract and practice are different things.

Actually in some contracts you might be entitled to taxis. Some depots have parking and some don't. And so on.

 

[Facing Back]

This has come up before on here. It’s normally up to the individual to ensure they can get to/from work as this is not the employer’s responsibility. There are however a few exceptions.

I'm sure it has come up before and apologies for any repetition. There are a million posts on here and my search skills are not a little out of date but thank you for the answer

 

[dk1]

I'm sure it has come up before and apologies for any repetition. There are a million posts on here and my search skills are not a little out of date but thank you for the answer

No problem. It is all very dependent on where you work and what you do. The TOCs in general are very good at providing taxis to ensure vital staff are able to work as normal. Don’t mean it to come out like that so sorry if it sounded a little curt.

 

[YorkRailFan]

RDG issues response. (Not my photo, credit to @ Clinnick1 on Twitter/X, link: https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1725086831715193249)

A spokesperson for the Rail Delivery Group said: "This wholly unnecessary strike action called by the ASLEF leadership will sadly disrupt customers and businesses ahead of the vital festive period, while further damaging the railway at a time when it is loosing £3000 a day. The fair and affordable offer made by the industry, which would take average driver base salaries for a 4-day week from £60,000 to nearly £65,000, remains on the table. We urge the ASLEF leadership to put it to its members, give Christmas back to our passengers, and end this damaging industrial dispute."

Of course no mention of T&Cs and overtime or how Harper isn't showing up for negotiations.

 

[footprints]

Aslef's claims that this latest round of strikes will "ramp up the pressure" on the Government is laughable. The Government is under no pressure at all to resolve the dispute. They're barely even newsworthy anymore.

Weekday strikes will just see people work from home. The public are well versed in working round the weekend walkouts. That will be easier this time round with the fragmented strike days.

Mick Whelan can say he wants a bumper no-strings pay rise all he wants. All he has to show for nearly a year and half of strike action is several days of lost wages for his members.

 

[Facing Back]

Pointless putting it to the members as they no the members won't say yes. And for the goodness knows how many times. They (rdg/ government)are asking for a change in terms and conditions in a one size fits all package , when they know that every company has different terms and conditions anyway and some companies won't have them to give up.

Yes I know. I was responding to a more generic point about the deadlock and the RDG's negotiating position, not suggesting that ASLEF put it to its members.

 

[dk1]

RDG issues response. (Not my photo, credit to @ Clinnick1 on Twitter/X)

Losing not loosing

 

[Starmill]

Actually in some contracts you might be entitled to taxis. Some depots have parking and some don't. And so on.

Indeed, in some cases. And naturally, duty travel is nearly always in the employer's responsibility.

 

[skyhigh]

Aslef's claims that this latest round of strikes will "ramp up the pressure" on the Government is laughable. The Government is under no pressure at all to resolve the dispute. They're barely even newsworthy anymore.

Weekday strikes will just see people work from home. The public are well versed in working round the weekend walkouts. That will be easier this time round with the fragmented strike days.

Mick Whelan can say he wants a bumper no-strings pay rise all he wants. All he has to show for nearly a year and half of strike action is several days of lost wages for his members.

For something you think is irrelevant - you seem to be getting fairly worked up about it.

 

[Facing Back]

RDG issues response. (Not my photo, credit to @ Clinnick1 on Twitter/X)

Is this for real? Is it only £3k per day ie £1m per year - that is a rounding error for a large company? Loosing? As it "the archer finished loosing his arrows"?

 

[dk1]

Is this for real? Is it only £3k per day ie £1m per year - that is a rounding error for a large company? Loosing? As it "the archer finished loosing his arrows"?

Did those in the RDG office allow their children to draught this response?

 

[Facing Back]

Indeed, in some cases. And naturally, duty travel is nearly always in the employer's responsibility.

It is in many industries - to and from a base of working. As a few responders have mentioned though different companies provide various abouts of flexibility here - from firing (not uncommon in retail) to asking you to taking a days vacation to providing a taxi as a matter of course - I was curious if there was a general approach in the rail industry

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Nov 2023 ==

Did those in the RDG office allow their children to draught this response?

That Scottish minister ran up an £11k bill when his kids used his ipad to watch football - there is precedent....

 

[skyhigh]

Is this for real? Is it only £3k per day ie £1m per year - that is a rounding error for a large company? Loosing? As it "the archer finished loosing his arrows"?

I think it's a mistake and is meant to say £3k per minute.

If it was right, I think the Railway would actually provide a remarkably good public service for just £1mill per annum...