Sunday trading laws discussion

[Ladder23]

Looking to hear and discuss people's thoughts on the Sunday trading laws for big stores/ supermarkets.

I personally find it an inconvenience and believe with how the world is very much 24hr operating there is no reason why the law shouldn't be changed.

"On Sundays, large shops may open for no more than 6 continual hours between the period 10am and 6pm. All large shops must close on Easter Sunday and on Christmas Day. In contrast, there are no opening restrictions for small shops (under 280 square metres or 3,000 square feet)."

 

[66701GBRF]

It should be up to the individual shops/companies to dictate their own business hours. Government should keep their noses out.

 

[Ladder23]

It should be up to the individual shops/companies to dictate their own business hours. Government should keep their noses out.

Agree

 

[gswindale]

I'm not expected to work Sunday, so why should I expect others to?

Maybe supermarkets should be allowed to only open for 37.5 hours per week, but can pick their times?

 

[spyinthesky]

I’d rather they didn’t open at all on Sundays.
One thing that the Germans do very well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if those staunch believers of "never working on Sundays" in their own field of employment show the same belief when it comes to other workers who do work on Sundays, such as never shopping in large supermarkets on Sundays?

 

[Hadders]

The current Sunday Trading rules in England and Wales date back to 1994, prior to that the law dictated which goods could be sold on Sundays which had become farcical because it was legal to sell a ‘top shelf’ magazine but not a bible! The Act was a compromise between protecting the viability of small shops (who had genuine concerns about their viability if opening hours became totally unregulated), the Church (who were a main player in the Keep Sunday Special campaign) and the major retailers (who at the time were pushing for unrestricted Sunday Trading).

I’ve worked in retail all my career and I have to say I’m surprised the current situation has stayed as it has for this long, not that I support any further deregulation.

Sunday Trading isn’t just about shops. There’s all of the support functions that also need to work (eg everything from transport, distribution, supply chain, security, car park control, cash collection, IT support, the list is endless - I could go on…)

Sunday Trading was temporarily deregulated for a few weeks in 2012 around the Olympics. At the time I was an Area Manager for a major retail chain and I suspected the relaxation would become permanent. The sales weren’t that significant but the staffing costs were. In the end I was glad to see the back of it.

‘Bricks and mortar’ retail has really struggled over the last few years. A few years ago there might have been a competitive edge for certain retailers if there was deregulation. A few were actively campaigning for it (led by Asda iirc). That simply isn’t the case today and I don’t see any changes happening any time soon.

 

[The Puddock]

Looking to hear and discuss people's thoughts on the Sunday trading laws for big stores/ supermarkets.

I personally find it an inconvenience and believe with how the world is very much 24hr operating there is no reason why the law shouldn't be changed.

"On Sundays, large shops may open for no more than 6 continual hours between the period 10am and 6pm. All large shops must close on Easter Sunday and on Christmas Day. In contrast, there are no opening restrictions for small shops (under 280 square metres or 3,000 square feet)."

There are no restrictions on Sunday opening in Scotland (though alcohol off-sales are restricted). It’s always confusing for people from Scotland when we visit England/Wales and the supermarkets are shut on Sunday mornings and evenings.

 

[GusB]

There are no restrictions on Sunday opening in Scotland (though alcohol off-sales are restricted). It’s always confusing for people from Scotland when we visit England/Wales and the supermarkets are shut on Sunday mornings and evenings.

The sale of alcohol in Scotland is subject to the same hours on Sunday as it is on any other day of the week. It used to be that you couldn't buy alcohol until 12.30pm on Sunday, but this was changed in the Licensing Act (Scotland) 2005. It's 10am - 10pm every day now.

 

[Mojo]

A few years ago I would have supported the law staying as it is. As the law applies to the size of the shops, it tended to give some benefit to smaller independent “corner shops” who have no chance of competing with the major supermarket chains. However since then the major chains have all expanded their convenience store format significantly; Tesco for instance having 2,000 “Express” shops, meaning that there is probably no benefit for smaller retailers anymore.

I would also add that a significant number of High Street shops (the likes of non-department store clothes shops, pharmacies and the like) fall below the 280m2 limit yet still voluntarily choose to restrict themselves to 6 hours on Sundays, so there is probably also the argument to make that many retailers don’t seem it commercially viable.

 

[66701GBRF]

I wonder if those staunch believers of "never working on Sundays" in their own field of employment show the same belief when it comes to other workers who do work on Sundays, such as never shopping in large supermarkets on Sundays?

What belief?

 

[Yew]

There are no restrictions on Sunday opening in Scotland (though alcohol off-sales are restricted). It’s always confusing for people from Scotland when we visit England/Wales and the supermarkets are shut on Sunday mornings and evenings.

And I take it that the world hasn’t ended north of the border?

 

[Ladder23]

There are no restrictions on Sunday opening in Scotland (though alcohol off-sales are restricted). It’s always confusing for people from Scotland when we visit England/Wales and the supermarkets are shut on Sunday mornings and evenings.

I wasn't aware of that myself!

 

[philosopher]

There are no restrictions on Sunday opening in Scotland (though alcohol off-sales are restricted). It’s always confusing for people from Scotland when we visit England/Wales and the supermarkets are shut on Sunday mornings and evenings.

I am pretty sure there was a free vote in the House of Commons around 10 years ago about allowing unrestricted Sunday trading. From what I recall it was defeated because:

• Labour and the Lib Dems did not want retail workers to be more pressured to come onto work on Sunday.
• Traditionalist Tories who were keen to preserve the religious aspects of Sunday.
• The SNP who did not want unrestricted Sunday trading in England as Scottish shops close to the border with England would lose custom from English shoppers circumnavigating the restricted trading hours in England.

I seem to recall the SNP voting against it was controversial at the time as they had agreed not to vote on solely English matters. Sunday trading rules were seen as a predominately English issue.

 

[birchesgreen]

I think they should keep it as it is, its nice having at least one day in the week that is different from the rest.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I think they should keep it as it is, its nice having at least one day in the week that is different from the rest.

It's annoying the moment you need something!
Also having so much less public transport is so annoying.

 

[Snow1964]

Be interesting to know the ages of those saying should be more unrestricted. Suspect they are the younger 24/7 happy to be burnt out by middle age brigade.

I grew up when everything shut on Sundays (am 59 now), and remember that it was family time. Also was a time when tended to do visits or be visited by older relatives so was day to have respect instilled.

Also more than aware all the areas that had riots few years ago (Tottenham, Brixton etc) were ones that had been ignoring Sunday trading, so wasn't same level of respect for the generation that fought for their freedom to do things within limits.

I am not convinced 6 hour Sunday shopping rule is sensible anymore, I would go German way and close the shops so people can be refreshed for working week, especially now many work 4 days in office / workplace.

 

[Busaholic]

So much that urgently needs overhauling or replacing in England, leave the Sunday Trading Laws alone!

 

[Iskra]

I'm not expected to work Sunday, so why should I expect others to?

Maybe supermarkets should be allowed to only open for 37.5 hours per week, but can pick their times?

Plenty of other people are willing to, so why should they be prevented from doing so? Why should I have one of my days off mandated to me? It's much better having a midweek day off than a Sunday as you can do more, things are cheaper and everywhere isn't really busy. Sunday's off are a waste of a day off most of the time.

I work in retail(ish) and I find Sunday trading really annoying as even though my company isn't directly affected by it, it funnels the trade into a unnecessarily narrow window causing congestion and saturation and closing time is a nightmare, because many seem to be totally unaware of early closing on Sunday, which despite it being advertised, direct their anger at retail staff. You then lack the gradual easing off of trade, as one minute you are heaving and next minute you are closed, and then you have a massive mess to suddenly clean-up, which actually takes you longer than if you had just closed later in the first place.

I'd prefer the Scottish approach, and let business do as they please. I can't see anyone going overboard with it as the brief trend of 24 hour supermarkets/pubs seems to have ended.

 

[SuspectUsual]

However since then the major chains have all expanded their convenience store format significantly; Tesco for instance having 2,000 “Express” shops, meaning that there is probably no benefit for smaller retailers anymore.

Since then Tesco have also bought Booker (who had themselves previously bought Makro) so also own the biggest suppliers to the smaller independent retailers. They’re protected whatever happens

 

[birchesgreen]

It's annoying the moment you need something!
Also having so much less public transport is so annoying.

Well if you can't manage the rest of the week or the various hours the shops are open on sunday maybe you need to get better organised?

 

[ChrisC]

I grew up when everything shut on Sundays (am 59 now), and remember that it was family time. Also was a time when tended to do visits or be visited by older relatives so was day to have respect instilled.

There was something nice about Sundays when it was so different to other days of the week. I liked it being so quiet everywhere with very little traffic on the roads. It was very much a day for visiting relatives. It always amazed me that in those days before everyone had a telephone, people would visit relatives totally unexpected and they could always come up with a good Sunday afternoon tea.

I know I’m probably in a minority as someone who liked Sunday when it was completely different to other days. People today would think it boring, no freedom of choice what to do and wouldn‘t be able to cope without the shops being open. I fully understand and realise we could never move back to how things were.

If Sundays are to become even more like every other day, let’s have public transport running to at least Saturday timetables. Going back to the days before Sunday trading there were usually buses to use to visit relatives but now so many places don’t have buses on Sundays to go to the shops.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Historically in Christian countries, Sundays were a Sabbath Day. There were reported incidents in Scotland when the landing of fish from trawlers on Sundays was forbidden.

The Sabbath day in both Jewish and Muslim faiths is not a Sunday. The Torah in a modern term of speech states "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days you shall labour and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God".

 

[birchesgreen]

I know I’m probably in a minority as someone who liked Sunday when it was completely different to other days. People today would think it boring, no freedom of choice what to do and wouldn‘t be able to cope without the shops being open. I fully understand and realise we could never move back to how things were.

Being bored from time to time is actually good for you, but many people seem to need to be bombarded with stimulations 24/7.

 

[deltic]

I’d rather they didn’t open at all on Sundays.
One thing that the Germans do very well.

German and Austrian rules are a farce. Retail in stations is allowed to open on Sundays and the supermarkets in them are packed. I was in Nurenburg a few months ago and there was crowd control in operation to manage the queue outside the store. The same in Salzburg where the small supermarket in the station was overwhelmed.

I'm in favour of more relaxed Sunday trading rules but combined with stronger staff protection for those who don't want to work that day.

 

[Hadders]

Supermarkets in England & Wales typically open for around 90-100 hours a week so there's plenty of opportunity to purchase supplies.

 

[Yew]

Supermarkets in England & Wales typically open for around 90-100 hours a week so there's plenty of opportunity to purchase supplies.

As long as it's not 6pm on a Sunday.

 

[K4016td]

In a largerly secular country UK had become I rather see the law relaxed further than restricted and let the business owners decide. If they feel need to open - go on, if not don't.

Personally I currently do not work on Sunday, but I used to work in the past and somewhat largely benefited from a free day on a weekday instead as the clothes shops and other places were less busy - for example I didn't have to wait half an hour to get a shoe in JD Sports and was the only customer at the store on a Monday morning.

 

[Kite159]

It's a nightmare if you need to pop to a supermarket around 15;40 (when it closes at 16;00) as some get very busy. Get rid of the '6 hour' rule and it will spread demand more throughout the day (no big queue to get into the supermarket when it opens etc)

Have it up to the stores themselves at what hours they want to set for Sundays. After all it works in Scotland.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Are USDAW still as much a union with strength in the retail sector as they used to (Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers) and is anyone with membership of that union aware of the view held by union executive concerning any proposed Sunday trading hours extension that would affect their members.