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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

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jamesst

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777014 on 2C23 had a problem at Birkenhead North. After half an hour, it ran empty to Chester and then back in to service there. 508103 on 2C24 was stuck in the tunnel for 15 minutes. Seems odd to let it depart from Hamilton Square when it had nowhere to go.
You mean Birkenhead Central!
2c23 had itself been delayed in the tunnel due to a door fault on the Ellesmere Port train in front.
By the time 2c23 reached Birkenhead Central and threw a wobbly 2c24 was already right behind it and so it was too late to stop it at Hamilton Square.
 
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childwallblues

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They have been smoked out after months of hiding, what has happened on the Kirkby line has been an absolute disgrace.
It is about time that Rotheram stood up to be counted. I assume that a lot of the problems with the battery 777s is down to a lack of sufficient testing. Anumber of these units have been on the system for some time. 777142/44/46 were all in store as ;ong ago as 30 May and 777140 was wat Kirkdale a fair time before that. Could these units not have been brought into service on the Ormskirk line to get them run in before Headbolt Lane opened? Iread that 777152 was out in service yesterday. Obviously this unit which has only recently arrived has been prepared for service much faster than any previous unit. Let us hope that it comes through its baptism of fire better than its sisters.
 

Bovverboy

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777142/44/46 were all in store as ;ong ago as 30 May and 777140 was wat Kirkdale a fair time before that. Could these units not have been brought into service on the Ormskirk line to get them run in before Headbolt Lane opened?
Indeed. They could have been run on battery Aughton Park - Ormskirk - Aughton Park to get experience of battery/changeover operation.
 

nigelsporne

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With the introduction of the 777s will they run to the same timetable as the 507/8s once all are in service or will there be scope for some alterations?
If the Merseyrail system was extended, say to Wigan or beyond Hunts Cross, would there be sufficient battery 777s to allow this?
Is there scope for ordering additional 777s or converting non battery units?
 

Geeves

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Once the current fleet have settled in there is an option in to add up to 60 more 777s.

This should cover anywhere and everywhere Merseyrail might want to run or increase on capacity!
 

nigelsporne

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Thanks for this.
So with potentially more units available are we now talking about Merseyrail expanding to Wigan, Preston, Widnes, Bidston towards Wrexham and Helsby?
An ex railway man told me the other day that the only reason Merseyrail ended up with the 777s was because the original buyer pulled out and they were going cheap. Is this true? Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread.
 

Bletchleyite

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So with potentially more units available are we now talking about Merseyrail expanding to Wigan, Preston, Widnes, Bidston towards Wrexham and Helsby?

They're all options.

An ex railway man told me the other day that the only reason Merseyrail ended up with the 777s was because the original buyer pulled out and they were going cheap. Is this true? Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread.

Totally untrue, they are a completely custom design for Merseyside (based on modular components, as is the norm for Stadler). It could be that Stadler bid quite well because they had spare factory time due to that sort of reason, but the units themselves are to a design led by a specific individual who has posted here.

Are you sure that person wasn't getting confused with the situation with the 707s going from SWR to Southeastern?
 

nigelsporne

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Thanks for this.
No the gentleman in question had just come from Southport and was complaining about the 507 he had ridden on but he wasn't any more complimentary about the 777s.
 

Djgr

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They're all options.
although they depend on authorities outside of Liverpool City Region putting money where their mouth is. The Welsh government is proactive here. On the other hand, the Lancs and Cheshires of this world appear to want a free ride.
 

Jamesrob637

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I believe the intention is to speed up some running times. 777s run quite early in quite a few places.

The only ones I've been on were early on the Southport line, admittedly I did only use them as far as Kirkdale as I didn't want to spend more than a fiver return!
 

Bletchleyite

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The only ones I've been on were early on the Southport line, admittedly I did only use them as far as Kirkdale as I didn't want to spend more than a fiver return!

I've used a few on the Ormskirk line now and arriving at Maghull North southbound or Town Green northbound a minute or two early isn't unusual. It'll generally be the longer runs.

Here's an example from today where it arrived at Maghull 3 early, and looking at a few today this doesn't seem at all unusual. It'd be great to get the Ormskirk run time down given that it's increased by nearly ten minutes since the system opened in the 70s.

 

prod_pep

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I think the Ormskirk line will see the biggest time savings of any route and the number of trains required will reduce from six back to five. Even with slow running between some stations, there is a significant dwell outside Ormskirk awaiting the single line to clear.

507/8s also ran early with ease in the current timetable.
 

Bikeman78

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You mean Birkenhead Central!
2c23 had itself been delayed in the tunnel due to a door fault on the Ellesmere Port train in front.
By the time 2c23 reached Birkenhead Central and threw a wobbly 2c24 was already right behind it and so it was too late to stop it at Hamilton Square.
Yes sorry, I did mean Central. I didn't clock the double failure until later. 508103 was very full from Birkenhead. The locals spent the rest of the journey discussing the poor reliability of the new units. Those on board 2C24 assumed it was a new train long before people getting on at Birkenhead confirmed it. It's lucky that the autumn timetable has longer turn rounds at Chester so the service recovered quickly without any further alterations. Running 2C24 fast would have gone down like a lead balloon, with the previous two trains to Hooton having been cancelled.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I've used a few on the Ormskirk line now and arriving at Maghull North southbound or Town Green northbound a minute or two early isn't unusual. It'll generally be the longer runs.
Four minutes to do 1.8 miles? No wonder they run early. The 317s (and now the 720s) were timed to do 3.8 miles from Tottenham Hale to Ponders End in four minutes. There's a neutral section there too.
 
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Bletchleyite

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I think the Ormskirk line will see the biggest time savings of any route and the number of trains required will reduce from six back to five. Even with slow running between some stations, there is a significant dwell outside Ormskirk awaiting the single line to clear.

Yep. I think there's deliberate slowing of the Ormskirk service because there are constraints at both ends - you can't have a layover in excess of 15 minutes at either end because both Ormskirk and the reversing siding are single lines, so with 6 units you have to effectively waste time along the way.
 

paddyb6

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777 diagrams increase from Monday - all Chester and Ellesmere Port services booked 777s.
 

samrammstein

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777 diagrams increase from Monday - all Chester and Ellesmere Port services booked 777s.

And NBN/WKI to remain booked 507/8s, so all bashing can be confined to 3 lines.

Perhaps this is to keep the miles down on the old units - some of the NBN and WKI unit diagrams (info correct when I did some deep research into them in April 2021) are 50-100 miles shorter than CTR/ELP diagrams - so this may extend their indivdual lives a bit to suit the 777 situation.
 

L401CJF

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777 just arrived into Chester on a delayed 2C20 (13late), believe signalling issues in loop to blame, however one of the doors on the now leading coach out of Chester is locked out of use, guard shouting passengers to use other doors.

Seeing as there is only one door per side in the leading coach and this door is locked, how is this allowed on the grounds of safety? At my TOC leading end doors arnt allowed to be locked out of use in service and neither can passengers be carried in a coach with all doors locked out of use.
 

Snow1964

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Seeing as there is only one door per side in the leading coach and this door is locked, how is this allowed on the grounds of safety? At my TOC leading end doors arnt allowed to be locked out of use in service and neither can passengers be carried in a coach with all doors locked out of use.
I know not allowed where they are individual coaches, but are there different rules for walk through coaches, where gangway is almost full width because effectively one big space.
 

L401CJF

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I know not allowed where they are individual coaches, but are there different rules for walk through coaches, where gangway is almost full width because effectively one big space.
That would make sense but still not practical. Was chaos at Chester watching the coach try and empty out via the next coach along whilst a massive crowd was trying to board!

I mean it's not uncommon to see a set of doors on a 50X locked out of use, but you only have to walk 3 bays down to the next door, with the 777 having 1 set of doors on the end coach it means emptying an entire coach through the next one. Always thought it was a daft design but clearly it was the only way to enable 8cars to fit all doors on a platform without fitting SDO/ASDO rl
 

jamesst

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That would make sense but still not practical. Was chaos at Chester watching the coach try and empty out via the next coach along whilst a massive crowd was trying to board!

I mean it's not uncommon to see a set of doors on a 50X locked out of use, but you only have to walk 3 bays down to the next door, with the 777 having 1 set of doors on the end coach it means emptying an entire coach through the next one. Always thought it was a daft design but clearly it was the only way to enable 8cars to fit all doors on a platform without fitting SDO/ASDO rl
The rules for 507/8s are only 1 set of doors can be locked out per coach and the doors on the opposite side locked out to compensate with a total of 2 sets of doors per train before it has to come out of service.

Due to it being easier to walk through a 777 neither the 1 set of doors or compensating rules applies. However any more than 2 sets of doors per train and its out of service.
 

Bletchleyite

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777 just arrived into Chester on a delayed 2C20 (13late), believe signalling issues in loop to blame, however one of the doors on the now leading coach out of Chester is locked out of use, guard shouting passengers to use other doors.

Seeing as there is only one door per side in the leading coach and this door is locked, how is this allowed on the grounds of safety? At my TOC leading end doors arnt allowed to be locked out of use in service and neither can passengers be carried in a coach with all doors locked out of use.

It's an issue where locking out locks out the emergency release. On newer units like these it doesn't.
 

ExRes

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Three more 777s on their way, some photos on RailAdventure GmbH Aktuelle Sichtung facebook from 10th November, no info on numbers as yet
 

ExRes

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When are they due in the UK?

No info as yet on RTT or Rail Record for RailAdventure moves from Tyseley or Walton Old Jct for next week, the pictures on facebook are from only just inside the German border so I would expect around Wednesday or Thursday if the wind is blowing in the right direction
 

Sam 76

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Big day for the 777s today as all Chester and Ellesmere port Services have come out as 777s. let’s hope they all make it though the day :)
 

karlbbb

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One's just been taken off the Ormskirk line but not mentioned on Twitter/X or the Merseyrail status page.
 

Pacef8

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Due to a train fault, services on the Chester line may be subject to delays or alterations.

Please see our website for more details - merseyrail.org/journey-planni…
Seems to be fixed now though.
That was 8.30 pm
 

karlbbb

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777023, but was brought back out later on.
I was just on this unit this morning. Made a couple of awful clunks and jolts coming out of Kirkdale that seemed more than just a bit of wheelslip, enough for a few passengers to comment and look at each other.
 
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