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A 350 Desiro question

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IanPooleTrains

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Right then, background:

Got on the 1633 @ Crewe today and the conductor comes on, gives the usual schpeel and then informs us that on the way up from Euston, the train had been usffering with the emergency brake coming on by itself under braking and advised everyone to take their seats. The problem had been reported and checked out at Crewe but nothing was found to be wrong with the Dessy

The first time happens between Crewe and Alsager where the Desiros cross to go onto the branch line and the conductor gets onto the phone and they start telling him to check all of the doors to see if they have been sealed properly and we notice him doing this in our carriage and saw nothing out of the orindary

So we get to Kidgrove and the emergency brake comes on again, stopping two carriages short in the platform befpre we go again and then it happens on the way to Longport

Finally, just before Stoke, the conductor says that the train has to terminate at Stoke for safety reasons and everyone gets off and the Dessy speeds off, brakes absolutely squealing mercy pn departure

Now I will agree that the train should have been stopped if LM management or whoever it is that he spoke to told him to do it because who wants a big crash on the railways but my queries are this:

1) If there was a known problem with the unit, why did it leave Crewe in the first place?
2) What could have caused this to happen?

Your feedback please :)
 
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MCR247

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When you said the brakes were squealing, are you sure it was just the normal flange that you can get on any train normally? Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVpuw9QaL5E


No idea about your first question, but for your second I'd say they wouldn't have wanted to cancel the train for now reason, and thought it might be a one off?
 

Whistler40145

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I agree that the train shouldn't have left Crewe in the first place.

As for the Emergency Brake keeping activating itself, I am not sure, but it could have been a TPWS fault?

If anyone else has any ideas I am sure we would all be grateful.
 

Nym

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Could have either been a software problem, air line failiure, door catch failiure (less likely).

TBH Sounds like software or air line/compressor failiure..
 

rail-britain

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1) If there was a known problem with the unit, why did it leave Crewe in the first place?
2) What could have caused this to happen?
The train had been in service throughout the day, so a decision will have been made based on reports throughout the day and maintenance history
More than likely it was a new fault reported as intermittent, which they had hoped would get the unit back to London and then for inspection overnight

The noise was probably a seized (binding) brake, if it is coming from a single carriage
I believe these units have a program that monitors the brake efficiency, and as the unit slows a binding brake often causes the axle to cease rotating, the program might then interpret this as a loss of traction and force an emergency brake application
 

387star

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Sorry I know this isn't strictly to do with this thread but it is not at a complete remove from it either and is a too small/trivial a point to warrant a new thread...

I have read complaints about the seating on the 350/1s with sore backs after two hours. I thought these trains were intended for short distance travel despite covering large distances?

Point being surely a passenger travelling to Euston from Liverpool would choose the Pendolino (presuming they aren't fussy about window seating) The seating whilst hard was chosen for this sort of journey whilst the 350/1 seating is surely a commuter layout...
 

Daimler

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Sorry I know this isn't strictly to do with this thread but it is not at a complete remove from it either and is a too small/trivial a point to warrant a new thread...

I have read complaints about the seating on the 350/1s with sore backs after two hours. I thought these trains were intended for short distance travel despite covering large distances?

Point being surely a passenger travelling to Euston from Liverpool would choose the Pendolino (presuming they aren't fussy about window seating) The seating whilst hard was chosen for this sort of journey whilst the 350/1 seating is surely a commuter layout...

The 350/1s are pretty comfortable inside - lots of tables (more per carriage, I'd wager, than a 390!), large windows, 2+2 seating, armrests on both sides of each seat (unlike the 390s!). Yes, they do have doors at 1/3 and 2/3 rather than at the carriage ends, but apart from that they're well suited to long journeys - the seats, after all, are exactly the same as those in Class 444s, which operate Weymouth fast services.

The 350/2s are, however, rather different - these do have a commuter layout, and their 3+2 seating and lack of tables do make them ill-suited to London-Birmingham, London-Crewe and Birmingham-Liverpool services - are you sure it's not these that you're referring to, as they have similar seating to the 450s, which have been the subject of numerous complaints from passengers on the London-Portsmouth route.

Don't forget, too, that London Midland charge far less than Virgin for London-Liverpool, which is a major consideration for many people. On a purely personal level, if time was removed from the equation, I would rather travel London-Liverpool on a 350/1 than a 390.
 

First class

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Sorry I know this isn't strictly to do with this thread but it is not at a complete remove from it either and is a too small/trivial a point to warrant a new thread...

I have read complaints about the seating on the 350/1s with sore backs after two hours. I thought these trains were intended for short distance travel despite covering large distances?

Point being surely a passenger travelling to Euston from Liverpool would choose the Pendolino (presuming they aren't fussy about window seating) The seating whilst hard was chosen for this sort of journey whilst the 350/1 seating is surely a commuter layout...

Pendolino Eus-Liverpool SOR - £261
Desiro Eus-Liverpool SOR - £79

I don't think the passenger would always choose the Pendolino!!
 

junglejames

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They are 99% identical to 450s then, and they've been discussed to death already... :D

To me every Desiro has seats too hard, and are all uncomfortable.
Doesnt matter if its a 444 or 350/2.

Anyway, moving on..... At least you know the brakes worked!!! :D
OK dont worry, im going.
 

rail-britain

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The seats in the 350/1 are more forgiving than those in the 350/2
It is a compromise made when installing high density seating layouts
 

Scud

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It's not uncommon for units to occaisionally have unsolicted brake applications and a unit won't be taken out of service just for one or two of these. Once a unit has multiple brake applications they come out of service for investigation. Pretty much just a standard procedure.
There would be no real reason to cancel for the sake of it and no spare 350s on Crewe LNWR. Also, an investigation of the brake applications would have to be carried out at the Siemens facility at Northampton, so every effort to keep the unit heading in that direction would've been made, within the safety procedure guidelines.
There could be any number of reasons for the brakes coming in on one of these modern things and can sometimes just be software glitches. One common cause is doors. Could also be AWS / TPWS related. It'll all boil down to a switch, sensor or something like that.
 

Pumbaa

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It has happened before to me, last January if memory is correct, we had 5 seperate EMG applications between Euston and Hemel. The train continued through to Northampton albeit rather late as it had to get there anyway for service. We were advised of this by the Guard prior to departure and that late running would occur.

So could like a recurring problem
 

RobShipway

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It is most likely a sensor for one of the door's not working correctly, so the software on the train believes the driver is moving the train with a door open when it is actually closed, hence the Emergemcy braking coming which I presume came on after the train was doing over 60mph?
 
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