Ticket Irregularity Report on Me

[1890]

Hi,
I got on the train at my local station where there is no conductor or office , travelled to oxford road then travelled to victoria. as the trains were late there was not much time to get the ticket. i usually have promise to pay and pay by cash so i thought once i get on the train i’ll pay by cash.
No conductor came and once i got off at oxford road the train to victoria was in 2 mins so i ran to the other platform.
i tried to pay by cash but the lady was not accepting it and wanted me to pay a fine because she said i should’ve got a ticket at oxford road station which is fair enough but i was just running very late it was an in the minute decision.
wrongfully, i gave false statements on where i boarded but the lady refused to believe i was going to victoria they were persistent i was travelling to salford for uni when i told them i’m going to victoria countless times. as i said i couldn’t pay the fine they took my details which again i wrongfully gave false info out of frustration. After they checked their system and said it wasn’t the correct address i gave them the correct info.
I have previously had 2 northern rail fines. one i paid and the other was nulled as i was in the right. this irregularity report is with trainline express.
Does anyone know what kind of fine this will be, how much and if a situation like this will be taken to court.
thanks

 

[fandroid]

Where were you stopped? You post gives us a clue that it was in Manchester but that's about it.

 

[30907]

At your local station there is presumably a ticket machine. Did you attempt to get a promise to pay while waiting for the (delayed) train, and if not why?

PS what line did you travel on to Oxford Rd?

 

[1890]

Where were you stopped? You post gives us a clue that it was in Manchester but that's about it.

On the transpenine line going from oxford road to victoria station

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2023 ==

At your local station there is presumably a ticket machine. Did you attempt to get a promise to pay while waiting for the (delayed) train, and if not why?

PS what line did you travel on to Oxford Rd?

Northern Line, and usually i buy a promise to pay everyday , sometimes the touch screen doesn’t work on it though i usually take videos of the screen not working to show proof , today i was just running late so when it didn’t work i ran back to the other side of the platform. usually on the ticket machine there is a green line but at my station there was a red line

 

[skyhigh]

What station did you start from?

When asked what station you started from, you said you lied to the inspector. What station did you say you boarded at?

 

[1890]

What station did you start from?

When asked what station you started from, you said you lied to the inspector. What station did you say you boarde

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2023 ==

What station did you start from?

When asked what station you started from, you said you lied to the inspector. What station did you say you boarded at?

i started from padgate
i said i boarded at deansgate , in the end i told them i started from padgate

 

[JBuchananGB]

It might help folk here to understand what happened if you say which time trains you were on. I looked at the timetables and for route from Padgate to Manchester Victoria including a change at Oxford Road onto TPE you seem to have at least 20 minutes at Oxford Road in which you could sort out your ongoing ticket. It is also somewhat unusual to be relying most of the time on "Promise to Pay". I understand that to be a process when using a TVM which won't take cash, so that you can sort out the proper ticket at the next opportunity to pay cash. Is that your usual process?

 

[WesternLancer]

Do the ticket machines at Padgate take cash?

Isn't the requirement that a promise to pay should be exchanged for a ticket at the first available opportunity (which would be a ticket office at a staffed station where you change trains if that is before the destination, if not asked to pay on the train)

I suspect they think you obtain promises to pay as a 'get out' but then if the barriers at your destination station are left open you do not in fact pay on exiting the barrier / station buy go on your way.

If obtaining a promise to pay is regular practice for you (I am personally of the view that paying by cash is totally acceptable - I often use cash esp for modest transactions) - can you give an idea of the percentage of times you exchange your promise to pay for the fare required? Might it be anything other than every time by any chance?

I note you say you have 2 Northern Rail fines (I assume you mean Penalty Fares?) - I suspect that when you gave a false address, and their records detected this, they may have also seen previous Penalty Fare records and taken the view that your situation warranted further investigation.

I guess you will have to wait and see what they say to you in writing, and then head back if you need advice.

 

[scrapy]

Do the ticket machines at Padgate take cash?

Isn't the requirement that a promise to pay should be exchanged for a ticket at the first available opportunity (which would be a ticket office at a staffed station where you change trains if that is before the destination, if not asked to pay on the train)

Padgate TVM is card only.

Whilst a promise to pay should be exchanged at first opportunity, there is no requirement to miss a connection to do this.

The OP says they usually get a promise to pay, did you get one on this occasion?? It is not clear from your original post.

 

[WesternLancer]

Padgate TVM is card only.

Whilst a promise to pay should be exchanged at first opportunity, there is no requirement to miss a connection to do this.

Thanks - so if the trains were late running on the occasion concerned, putting the OP's journey at risk, it would seem to me they have a valid line of argument for their actions.

Trian logs for the date might help the OP demonstrate that, which if this was recent should be quite easy to find on line (at least with experts on this site to help locate them) - tho the date and time of travel would be needed, so the OP could set those out clearly if they want help locating this.

 

[Hadders]

From what I can see the OP should've got a Promise to Pay ticket at Padgate if they wanted to pay with cash. Failing to do this is the root cause of the problem.

Armed with a Promise to Pay the Op is then entitled to purchase a ticket with cash at the earliest opportunity. They are not required to do this at Oxford Road if this would cause them to miss a connection.

 

[Haywain]

Thanks - so if the trains were late running on the occasion concerned, putting the OP's journey at risk, it would seem to me they have a valid line of argument for their actions.

There is no requirement to miss a connection between trains on the journey but there is a clear requirement to obtain a Promise to Pay before the journey commences. It appears that the OP failed to do the latter.

 

[WesternLancer]

There is no requirement to miss a connection between trains on the journey but there is a clear requirement to obtain a Promise to Pay before the journey commences. It appears that the OP failed to do the latter.

Yes, I now note the phrase 'usually have a promise to pay' in the OP - which I guess implies did not have on this occasion. The opening post is not 100% clear to me but it seems a Penalty Fare (PF) was not issued but a ticket irregularity report submitted so I guess the OP needs to wait and see what letter they get and what it says.

A PF would have probably been cheaper to settle, but I suspect by giving false details, not stating the true origin station etc, the member of staff had their suspicions aroused.

 

[fandroid]

Northern Line, and usually i buy a promise to pay everyday , sometimes the touch screen doesn’t work on it though i usually take videos of the screen not working to show proof , today i was just running late so when it didn’t work i ran back to the other side of the platform. usually on the ticket machine there is a green line but at my station there was a red line

This indicates to me that the TVM wasn't working at all at Padgate. Is that true?

 

[John R]

What date and time of train were you on from Padgate? If you want to use the argument that you didn’t have time to get a ticket at Oxford Road it is worth knowing (and evidencing) exactly how long you had, so that you can use that in any defence.

 

[Haywain]

What date and time of train were you on from Padgate? If you want to use the argument that you didn’t have time to get a ticket at Oxford Road it is worth knowing (and evidencing) exactly how long you had, so that you can use that in any defence.

But that is no argument if no attempt to pay or obtain a Promise to Pay was made at Padgate.

 

[John R]

But that is no argument if no attempt to pay or obtain a Promise to Pay was made at Padgate.

Agree, unless, as the OP says, the PtP machine was not working?

 

[skyhigh]

Agree, unless, as the OP says, the PtP machine was not working?

Problem there is that the OP lied and gave a closer station when asked where they came from - that is a clear indication that they intended not to pay the full fare due.

 

[John R]

Problem there is that the OP lied and gave a closer station when asked where they came from - that is a clear indication that they intended not to pay the full fare due.

Ah yes. And that certainly gives credence to any suspicion that the use of PtP in the first instance is to have the opportunity not to pay the required fare.