Wait a minute. Are you assuming that i said the Northerners had it worse? No, i said us Southerners had it worse. We got rid of our quality slamdoors, and have to put up with 375s.
I reckon we have it worse down here. Id rather a pacer or sprinter turned up into my local station, and not a 375.
Yep, reading your post all through, you definitely have me wrong. I was complaining that the North has it better than the South. Unfortunately our pacer friends here wont let me bring any down to Kent!!
Hey, thats an idea with the pendys though. Turn them round when they get to Watford Junc (afterall, anywhere north of there is up north right?!!!!), and send 87s and Mk2s up from Watford to Brum, Pool, Manc land and Glasgow!! Oh boy, youd never keep me off the WCML! Wouldnt touch Euston, but id be going up and down between Watford and Glasgow everyday!!
I must confess that I thought your comments were sarcastic, so apologies for that! In fairness that vast majority of people would have made those comments though no doubt. I'm not sure I'd rather a Pacer than an Electrostar myself, though obviously the Pacer has more character! Though I think a journey on a Des-Dull-iro makes an Electrostar seem like it has bags of charisma!
To fight my corner in response to some other comments if I may;
There is no equivalent of the Pacer in the South East; the most "spartan" of the fleets - the 455/317/319 families - are more comfortably equipped than their equivalent 150/155/156 fleets - I'm unsure as to how a 455 is more comfortably equipped than any Sprinter set, even after SWT's excellent refurb, particularly a 155/156 which are comfy seated inter-regional sets? I'd also add that Southern have recently acquired a batch of Class 313 units, which are now amongst the very oldest MU's in service anywhere on the network, and which have no toilets (nor does a 455). These make their way as far as Portsmouth Harbour every day, that's a long journey on such an old, spartan train!
I have said before that I don't think it is a North/South thing, so much as a distance from London thing, which is why I agree that Bristol and the West also lose out. - Bristol/Swindon/Reading is prime London commuter territory, with Bristol itself being a major south western centre of trade and commerce in it's own right. If it were indeed based on distance from London, Bristol would have shiny new trains too! Instead, we have the largest fleet of 30 year old HST's running all of the intercity routes, and the same Sprinter fleets which serve many similar northern cities. Here lies an interesting point; when the Thames Valley route gets it's electrification, the 25 year old Class 319's which it will receive will be a backward step from the much more modern Turbo units. New wires, very old trains underneath them. Had this happened further up country, the north/south argument would again have been rolled out, but instead this time we see the south making do with old trains, even where a major project like electrification is concerned. FGW is still waiting on it's second batch of 150/1's, which will arrive once LM - further north than FGW - gets it's new 172 sets. FGW also has 158 sets which came from TPE, who got brand new 185's to replace them.
Our prime "top end" stock - the 185s - are not up to the same standards as the 350/450; and there is no equivalent of the 444/442 - on the subject of 442's, an integral part of their build was the recycling of very old traction gear from units which were several decades older than any Pacer unit!
So, I guess it all depends on your point of view, and which lines exactly you ride over I suppose! Nevertheless, this is always an interesting and very lively debate!
