Trivia: Pay As You Go on UK bus services

[61653 HTAFC]

Is contactless tap on tap off in West Yorkshire supposed to be multi operator? I may have missed it but I can’t see any mention anywhere that it is

On the day tap-on tap-off was launched on Arriva (with absolutely no warning) a driver told me it was. On a previous occasion I'd made multiple journeys on different operators (in that case, Arriva and Station Coaches of Batley) and been capped at the £4.50 of a MetroDay- so I assumed all operators would do the same. Clearly I was a combination of misinformed and mistaken!

As a more general point, WYPTE really need to sort out their communication. When tap-on tap-off was launched by various operators there was radio silence from Metro, leaving passengers to either work it out for themselves or rely on incomplete/false information from drivers. Then there's the absolute shambles of stop allocation at Heckmondwike Hub, where the shelters are all labelled with the wrong services (including discontinued ones) and drivers basically use whichever stand they feel like anyway. They used to be the example for others to follow, these days they're more of a cautionary tale.

 

[Deerfold]

Is contactless tap on tap off in West Yorkshire supposed to be multi operator? I may have missed it but I can’t see any mention anywhere that it is

I asked about this earlier in the month. I've seen publicity that it is coming but nothing to confirm it's in place.

Without that it'd be difficult to claim one has been overcharged.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I asked about this earlier in the month. I've seen publicity that it is coming but nothing to confirm it's in place.

Without that it'd be difficult to claim one has been overcharged.

Yeah, I realise I've no chance of getting a refund- even if there was a chance, it'd mean visiting one of the few remaining travel centres (Dewsbury no longer has one, nor does Wakefield) which would cost the same amount again as what the refund would be. Lesson learned, don't trust information from random drivers who are not necessarily any more informed than I am!

To be honest, using my bank card contactlessly on public transport isn't something I'm comfortable with in general. When in London I still use a PAYG Oyster because that sits in my back pocket in a ticket wallet. My debit card lives in my main wallet and having to get that out at every ticket gate is asking for it to be snatched. It also doesn't help that you don't get to find out what you've been charged until the following day, and there's no way of knowing whether it's worth tapping off unless you've only gone a few hundred yards- at least not without asking the driver, and many drivers have already got into the habit of not talking to passengers.

 

[noddingdonkey]

First couldn't even get the capping to work properly between their own opcos when the 184 was run by Oldham.

One thing I'm wary of is the QR scanner on First's machines being above the contactless reader. So in scanning a mobile ticket there's a risk of the mobile contactless being detected instead

 

[cactustwirly]

First couldn't even get the capping to work properly between their own opcos when the 184 was run by Oldham.

One thing I'm wary of is the QR scanner on First's machines being above the contactless reader. So in scanning a mobile ticket there's a risk of the mobile contactless being detected instead

That's the same on most machines
I use mobile tickets all the time and it's never been an issue

 

[_toommm_]

First couldn't even get the capping to work properly between their own opcos when the 184 was run by Oldham.

One thing I'm wary of is the QR scanner on First's machines being above the contactless reader. So in scanning a mobile ticket there's a risk of the mobile contactless being detected instead

Apple Pay gets disabled when scanning tickets on iOS, and I imagine it would do in Android too.

 

[station_road]

Apple Pay gets disabled when scanning tickets on iOS, and I imagine it would do in Android too.

Depends if the app developer implements that on Android - TrentBarton's Mango now disables Google Wallet but didn't when first released

 

[lancededcena]

First Essex uses a Tap but don't tap out system in Colchester, Chelmsford, Basildon and Southend but not the rest of Essex which I find bizzare.

 

[Deerfold]

Yeah, I realise I've no chance of getting a refund- even if there was a chance, it'd mean visiting one of the few remaining travel centres (Dewsbury no longer has one, nor does Wakefield) which would cost the same amount again as what the refund would be. Lesson learned, don't trust information from random drivers who are not necessarily any more informed than I am!

To be honest, using my bank card contactlessly on public transport isn't something I'm comfortable with in general. When in London I still use a PAYG Oyster because that sits in my back pocket in a ticket wallet. My debit card lives in my main wallet and having to get that out at every ticket gate is asking for it to be snatched. It also doesn't help that you don't get to find out what you've been charged until the following day, and there's no way of knowing whether it's worth tapping off unless you've only gone a few hundred yards- at least not without asking the driver, and many drivers have already got into the habit of not talking to passengers.

In London if you register your contactless card you don't have to wait until next day.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In London if you register your contactless card you don't have to wait until next day.

I only go to London once a flood. I will never use my main bank card for travelling on public transport in London, because as I said that means completely modifying my storage situation. If someone snatches my PAYG Oyster it's a pain in the backside but nothing more. If someone snatches my bank card that's a much bigger problem to have to deal with.

 

[Deerfold]

I only go to London once a flood. I will never use my main bank card for travelling on public transport in London, because as I said that means completely modifying my storage situation. If someone snatches my PAYG Oyster it's a pain in the backside but nothing more. If someone snatches my bank card that's a much bigger problem to have to deal with.

That's fine, but it sounded like you'd included the delay in finding out what you'd been charged as a reason not to use it in the post I replied to.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That's fine, but it sounded like you'd included the delay in finding out what you'd been charged as a reason not to use it in the post I replied to.

Sorry about that- I was moaning about two different things! Though I would be reluctant to "register" my main bank card with an organisation like TfL.

 

[johncrossley]

Sorry about that- I was moaning about two different things! Though I would be reluctant to "register" my main bank card with an organisation like TfL.

I presume you don't use your bank card at all then.

 

[Deerfold]

Sorry about that- I was moaning about two different things! Though I would be reluctant to "register" my main bank card with an organisation like TfL.

Any particular reason? They don't seem to have had any leaks, like some companies.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Any particular reason? They don't seem to have had any leaks, like some companies.

Just a gut feeling more than anything. In recent years various public or quasi-public bodies have been targeted by cyber-attacks. I just feel safer and more comfortable continuing to use PAYG Oyster. I wish WYPTE's MCard had the same level of functionality rather than only being able to be loaded with specific Metro products. If I could simply load £10 onto it at the bus station and know it would cap at the cost of a MetroDay it would be far easier to get used to using the tap-on/tap-off feature.

 

[Edvid]

Yesterday I made a return trip (Market Harborough - Leicester) on the Stagecoach X7 with TOTO; I knew Stagecoach generally used Vix equipment but hadn't seen any mention of a PAYG-compatible setup, so was half-expecting to see Ticketer onboard instead. (For the record, it was Vix.)

The outward bus didn't have an exit reader so I had to tap off with the ticket machine; nonetheless both legs were correctly charged £2 each.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2023 ==

It's often not promoted by drivers who will happily keep selling single tickets in the normal way rather than pushing people to use Tap on, tap off.

Come to think of it, what proportion of passengers paying for single journeys (so not using ENCTS, day passes etc) are even aware of non-TfL PAYG on their local services?

Taking my return X7 trip as an example, AFAICT plenty of singles were issued but only 2 or 3 passengers (including myself) used TOTO. There was no mention of it on or inside the applicable buses (which was clearly a factor).

 

[AY1975]

First Doncaster has a Tap on Tap off system in place.

And First buses in Sheffield have had tapping off machines installed for several months now but I haven't seen anyone using them or any publicity about the system going live yet even though it has gone live in Doncaster. I'm also not sure whether South Yorkshire PTE plans eventually to roll it out across all operators or only on First buses.

 

[Edvid]

Within England, here's a rough list of municipals and others (owned by smaller groups or independent) that run contactless PAYG schemes outside combined authorities:

* Blackpool Transport
* Centrebus (in Leicester)
* CT4N (Linkbus only)
* Diamond Bus (in Worcestershire)
* Grant Palmer
* Hopley's Coaches
* Kinchbus
* Nottingham City Transport
* Preston Bus
* Travel Cornwall
* trentbarton

It's not particularly clear on their websites but I think the applicable Transdev Blazefield OpCos - namely Blackburn/Burnley/Harrogate, plus Yorkshire Coastliner (York and Country) - also do so. Reading Buses and Thames Valley Buses (in Wokingham / Reading) will join them on 1 November.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, Yellow Buses did so before they ceased trading.

 

[JD2168]

And First buses in Sheffield have had tapping off machines installed for several months now but I haven't seen anyone using them or any publicity about the system going live yet even though it has gone live in Doncaster. I'm also not sure whether South Yorkshire PTE plans eventually to roll it out across all operators or only on First buses.

First we’re supposed to be starting a Tap on Tap off system in South Yorkshire from this weekend but it has been delayed due to some issues coming up.

 

[markymark2000]

First we’re supposed to be starting a Tap on Tap off system in South Yorkshire from this weekend but it has been delayed due to some issues coming up.

First released a press release back in April 2023 about 'completing the roll out of tap on, tap off' and it seems like there are missing links here. Buses of Somerset hasn't got it sorted either. First have outright lied on their press release and no one holds them accountable for it.

First Bus completes UK wide rollout of Tap On, Tap Off ticketing technology across entire fleet

First Bus completes UK wide

www.firstgroupplc.com

First Bus completes UK wide rollout of Tap On, Tap Off ticketing technology across entire fleet
27 Apr 2023

(Very small quote, full article linked)

 

[WAB]

It's not particularly clear on their websites but I think the applicable Transdev Blazefield OpCos - namely Blackburn/Burnley/Harrogate, plus Yorkshire Coastliner (York and Country) - also do so. Reading Buses and Thames Valley Buses (in Wokingham / Reading) will join them on 1 November.

When I've used Coastliner, it was more a case of just tapping on. With the £2 fare cap, more than a few stops ends up being £2 anyway.

 

[Deerfold]

It's not particularly clear on their websites but I think the applicable Transdev Blazefield OpCos - namely Blackburn/Burnley/Harrogate, plus Yorkshire Coastliner (York and Country) - also do so. Reading Buses and Thames Valley Buses (in Wokingham / Reading) will join them on 1 November.

They do have it. I had hoped to find it useful on my local services, but the one run by Burnley got it years later and I didn't fancy missing a bus because I was capping and, so long as I knew what I was doing for the day, it was no cheaper.

 

[JD2168]

First we’re supposed to be starting a Tap on Tap off system in South Yorkshire from this weekend but it has been delayed due to some issues coming up.

Tap on Tap off starts at First South Yorkshire on 12th November.