Railtrain24
Member
So I am buying train tickets through Trainline app although I never registered with the app or have an account with then will they still have records of you by just using the app ?
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Please anyone advise !
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Yes they will have your details, even if you check out as a guest.
If you want advice then you will need to tell us what happened.
Railtrain24
Member
thank you for your response .. well I was stop on the gates when i tried to tap on with contactless … was the same guy that two weeks ago stop me and put me a penalty … which I paid … but i did have the ticket … only i bought it late and he know it … I explained i was distracted tired and obviously I need a ticket to go out but they block the scan qr and only contactless …
but he just didn’t listen and anyway put me a ticket … then two weeks later same person i was about to pass and i have my phone in hand and card as well .. and he stop me and stating that come come here you have not ticket and I was fuming (bad reacción) bad honestly this guys just stop me because he remembered me .. the true is that i never showed him anything i was about to tap and he stared saying that i have not ticket again …. he issued me with a witnesses statement .. which i found out what is it because i called thameslink and they lore it lees explained .. little mistake that now take me to a big thing probably …
the thing is that sometimes when i don’t have money in my card i buy tickets from another station … as normally gates are open … (awful i know ) but seriously i have kid and sometimes i just can’t afford it … so now they will get all out i guessed .. all the past … even my cards are all new from like august … but they have my name …
I have the proved of taping that day though … but not sure what to do .. i just feeling horrible to have to do this sometimes my heart beat so fast … i just don’t like it but i did anyway and is done .. I use the app with different cards of apple pay and different emails
I feel bad about this situation is not because i wanted the avoid and so pay less is just surviving .. anyway
so this is the history
any advice please
but he just didn’t listen and anyway put me a ticket … then two weeks later same person i was about to pass and i have my phone in hand and card as well .. and he stop me and stating that come come here you have not ticket and I was fuming (bad reacción) bad honestly this guys just stop me because he remembered me .. the true is that i never showed him anything i was about to tap and he stared saying that i have not ticket again …. he issued me with a witnesses statement .. which i found out what is it because i called thameslink and they lore it lees explained .. little mistake that now take me to a big thing probably …
the thing is that sometimes when i don’t have money in my card i buy tickets from another station … as normally gates are open … (awful i know ) but seriously i have kid and sometimes i just can’t afford it … so now they will get all out i guessed .. all the past … even my cards are all new from like august … but they have my name …
I have the proved of taping that day though … but not sure what to do .. i just feeling horrible to have to do this sometimes my heart beat so fast … i just don’t like it but i did anyway and is done .. I use the app with different cards of apple pay and different emails
I feel bad about this situation is not because i wanted the avoid and so pay less is just surviving .. anyway
so this is the history
any advice please
Haywain
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It isn't entirely clear what you are saying here. Are you saying that you were stopped because you were recognised, but you didn't actually have a ticket that covered your (full) journey?
Your story is very confusing, so we may need to get some clarity, but I think you are saying that the first time you were stopped you were trying to dodge paying the correct fare by purchasing a ticket from a closer station as you approached the barriers. Correct?
The second time is even more confusing? Are you saying that you had tapped at your departure station, so you did in fact have a valid ticket? Or not?
The bit that really rings alarm bells is the comment that you use different cards and different emails. That would suggest that you have been adopting a relatively sophisticated approach to avoid being detected, which if the investigator becomes aware of it would likely escalate the matter in their eyes as a case of fraud.
The second time is even more confusing? Are you saying that you had tapped at your departure station, so you did in fact have a valid ticket? Or not?
The bit that really rings alarm bells is the comment that you use different cards and different emails. That would suggest that you have been adopting a relatively sophisticated approach to avoid being detected, which if the investigator becomes aware of it would likely escalate the matter in their eyes as a case of fraud.
Railtrain24
Member
so this guy stop me once … which i didn’t have the ticket … (well bought it late) he noticed that anyway and he issued me a penalty … two weeks later yesterday I was about to pass and tap my contactless when he stop me again “” . same guy … for not reason because i was about to tap he just stop me because he recognized me from las time that the only reason i can’t think because of course i don’t have ticket i was with my contactless … (he even say i was traveling with not ticket but the true was that i did tap in and out ) .. i have proved even .. have my card is registered on tlf …
thank you ! do i explained now ?’
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ok let’s say first time I have not ticket let say like that … because i did have but was on the opposite dirección so basically count like i didn’t have any ticket … second time i did tap my contactless on departure and when i was to go out he stop me on the gate … and i tolf
hime again not this time i am tapping with my card and he say not you don’t have ticket
did I explained ?! and of course i did pay with different cards i knew that what i was doing was no a good thing but although I tend to used that one that have money anyway i all a mess now
thank you ! do i explained now ?’
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
ok let’s say first time I have not ticket let say like that … because i did have but was on the opposite dirección so basically count like i didn’t have any ticket … second time i did tap my contactless on departure and when i was to go out he stop me on the gate … and i tolf
hime again not this time i am tapping with my card and he say not you don’t have ticket
did I explained ?! and of course i did pay with different cards i knew that what i was doing was no a good thing but although I tend to used that one that have money anyway i all a mess now
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Please post here any letters or other paperwork you have been sent or issued with by the Train Operating Company or someone acting on their behalf.
Please obscure any personal details or reference numbers.
Only when we see the "paperwork" can we establish the issue and then give you appropriate advice.
If you have not been sent a letter or given "paperwork" did the person who stopped you take your name and address so a letter could be sent to you?
If that is the case then you will have to wait for the letter to arrive so you can post it here so advice can be given.
Letters can take some weeks to arrive as there is a backlog in the system at the present time.
Please obscure any personal details or reference numbers.
Only when we see the "paperwork" can we establish the issue and then give you appropriate advice.
If you have not been sent a letter or given "paperwork" did the person who stopped you take your name and address so a letter could be sent to you?
If that is the case then you will have to wait for the letter to arrive so you can post it here so advice can be given.
Letters can take some weeks to arrive as there is a backlog in the system at the present time.
Railtrain24
Member
yes exactly i got the full ticket arriving to the barriers … second i tap on departure and out he stop me because he recognized me … because when I have the penalty I was so scared that i told myself i never ever again … that’s why since that day i started tapping with my contactless … but unfortunately he stop me and we were arguing because this time i really did tap in on departure … and i was about to tap out as well obviously he just didn’t allowed me he wanted my details … that’s all and he got it ..
i feel so horrible about it . and i take responsibility i am just scare now of what can happens my job i can’t have any convictions on my job (is just bad )
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so i don’t have letter … i have a ticket from Godiva Thameslink railway please see attached ..
today I passed he was there again and to be honest i even was scare .. even though I have all my full tickets . he didn’t see it me he was busy stomping other people
I will have to wait and see what they got .. i have tickets normally way out always same destination short because early at 4am I never got any as they were open
I knew one day were to happened but honestly sometimes i didn’t reach end of the months I leave alone with my daughter and i don’t have no one no family I was doing what I could to survive ( now i really need to survive for good with this case ) tickets are so pricey like £27 return (everyday ) so that’s it (if i don’t have what could I have been done ) not excuse honesty but is true .
thank you
i guess i have to wait and see and when they tell me please i will need advice of what to do ..
thank you so much
Attachments
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GTR, the company which stopped you, will likely audit your Trainline purchases and determine how many times you have evaded the fare. They will then calculate the total avoided, add an admin fee of £100 or more on top of that, and then demand you pay it to avoid being taken to court and convicted of a criminal offence.
You should hopefully receive a letter soon from them, and when it arrives, please post it with your details removed for more specific advice.
You should hopefully receive a letter soon from them, and when it arrives, please post it with your details removed for more specific advice.
If you tapped in with your card, then you had a valid ticket.
The inspector could not check that. They can only check if the TfL card account has not been blocked. Did you tap out again when you finished your journey?
As the card is registered, look up your journey history for that day on TfL. It should show the tap in with the card and any tap out too. If you somehow failed to tap out, you can ask TfL to complete the journey on the system.
As it's likely that your card tap in was registered OK, GTR cannot take you to court as a direct result of what you did that day, because you had done nothing wrong.
It would be a lot more difficult to prove that you had committed any other offences as they did not actually witness you catching trains on other occasions.
The best thing to do now is to absolutely ensure that you get the right tickets in future, or use your contactless card correctly. That last point means only travelling between stations where contactless is allowed. GTR will be looking for any excuse to stop you again.
The inspector could not check that. They can only check if the TfL card account has not been blocked. Did you tap out again when you finished your journey?
As the card is registered, look up your journey history for that day on TfL. It should show the tap in with the card and any tap out too. If you somehow failed to tap out, you can ask TfL to complete the journey on the system.
As it's likely that your card tap in was registered OK, GTR cannot take you to court as a direct result of what you did that day, because you had done nothing wrong.
It would be a lot more difficult to prove that you had committed any other offences as they did not actually witness you catching trains on other occasions.
The best thing to do now is to absolutely ensure that you get the right tickets in future, or use your contactless card correctly. That last point means only travelling between stations where contactless is allowed. GTR will be looking for any excuse to stop you again.
Haywain
Veteran Member
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- 3 Feb 2013
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So, did you buy a ticket or use a card of some sort? If you used a card, what is it - an Oyster card, a bank card or Thameslink/Southern's Key card - and did you actually use that card at both ends of your journey?
If I'm reading this correctly:
A couple of weeks ago you made a journey from Farringdon to Gatwick Airport
You did not possess a ticket upon arrival at Gatwick, you purchased a ticket on the Trainline app tp exit the station but you were stopped by a ticket inspector who gave you a Penalty Fare which you paid
A couple of weeks have now passed and you were stopped by the same inspector at Gatwick Airport
You were attempting to leave the station by using your contactless card. The inspector didn't believe you and reported you for further investigation.
Is this correct? If so, I have some further questions:
- How did you enter Farringdon station? The barriers are highly unlikely to be open at Farringdon so I suspect you actually started your journey somewhere else.
- Did you touch in at Farringdon when you started your journey?
- Did you have a ticket of any description to enter or exit stations atthe start or end of your journey?
A couple of weeks ago you made a journey from Farringdon to Gatwick Airport
You did not possess a ticket upon arrival at Gatwick, you purchased a ticket on the Trainline app tp exit the station but you were stopped by a ticket inspector who gave you a Penalty Fare which you paid
A couple of weeks have now passed and you were stopped by the same inspector at Gatwick Airport
You were attempting to leave the station by using your contactless card. The inspector didn't believe you and reported you for further investigation.
Is this correct? If so, I have some further questions:
- How did you enter Farringdon station? The barriers are highly unlikely to be open at Farringdon so I suspect you actually started your journey somewhere else.
- Did you touch in at Farringdon when you started your journey?
- Did you have a ticket of any description to enter or exit stations atthe start or end of your journey?
Railtrain24
Member
I did tap farringdon starting my journey and yesterday i checked my oyster card online account which i have registered my card and i was there my trip …. I tap with my bank card … and i did tap out after all the argued with him to completed my journey .. I really made sure this not happening again
all this week i been tapping in and out
do you think they will focus on this day when the ticket was issued and if the found out I absolute paid (have valid ticket) they won’t investigated further ?!
i have the proved that i did paid they say the day i was issued with the witnesses
Attachments
That statement shows a journey time of 06:21 to 06:22 on 23 October, which it is impossible to make that physical journey in. Timings only appear like that on the statement when the passenger has manually provided one end of the journey to TfL after the fact. The times then shown on the statement are the time of the touch that did happen and a minute either side.
The witness statement shows it was issued at 06:21, two days ago, on 23 October. I am assuming that is correct. It follows that the touch-out time of 06:22 is likely to be correct. It also follows that the card in question was not tapped in at the start of the journey at Farringdon, and that touch-in was added manually later.
I am also aware that due to building works Gatwick Airport station currently has one ungated exit with standalone validators. Is that where you were stopped by the inspector?
Is there anything about your posts so far you'd like to revise? We are here to help you, but we can't do that if you tell us lies.
The witness statement shows it was issued at 06:21, two days ago, on 23 October. I am assuming that is correct. It follows that the touch-out time of 06:22 is likely to be correct. It also follows that the card in question was not tapped in at the start of the journey at Farringdon, and that touch-in was added manually later.
I am also aware that due to building works Gatwick Airport station currently has one ungated exit with standalone validators. Is that where you were stopped by the inspector?
Is there anything about your posts so far you'd like to revise? We are here to help you, but we can't do that if you tell us lies.
Deafdoggie
Established Member
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- 29 Sep 2016
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- 3,414
They will certainly start with the day you were stopped. But if they find the card wasn't tapped in & out they may start looking to see if there's other times too. Remember, manually adding the journey after isn't the same as tapping in & out. Simply having paid for the journey afterwards by manually completing it isn't paying for your journey in their eyes.
The important difference is that the OP appears to be paying for a shorter journey than they are making, not merely the fact it was added manually. As @island says there are gates at Farringdon and it is unlikely the OP actually started their journey there.
Sorry, this is sidetracking a little, but it will help me and probably others interpret TfL journey histories presented by OPs.
So, you are saying that if a tap in or tap out is added manually to an incomplete journey as shown on TfL's Journey History page, then the resulting record will always show a journey duration of just 1 minute?
That is my understanding, yes. I am not presenting it as an uncontroverted fact because I can only comment from limited experience.
If the OP is concerned that we are challenging some of the statements made, they would do well to remember that the investigators will almost certainly spot the holes in their argument, and probably more too given the evidence they will be able to call upon. The best way to avoid a prosecution is to be both truthful and contrite in any dealings. I’m not sure we have seen either yet.
@MikeWh may be able to confirm.
The statement shows a journey time of 06:21 to 06:22 on 23 October re Farringdon to Gatwick Airport for an off peak fare of £9.50
The same off peak fare £9.50 applies for journeys commencing from stations much further away, such as from Elstree & Borehamwood to Gatwick Airport. Is there any chance that a manual completion not by the OP might use Farringdon rather than spend time working out how to spell Elstree & Borehamwood - is it ee or ea, or is it & or and, is it an e in Borham, etc. Or spend time spelling Kings Cross St Pancras, however that is formatted. Even looking up a 3 character code is hard, because you have to know the precise station name to find the code
The same off peak fare £9.50 applies for journeys commencing from stations much further away, such as from Elstree & Borehamwood to Gatwick Airport. Is there any chance that a manual completion not by the OP might use Farringdon rather than spend time working out how to spell Elstree & Borehamwood - is it ee or ea, or is it & or and, is it an e in Borham, etc. Or spend time spelling Kings Cross St Pancras, however that is formatted. Even looking up a 3 character code is hard, because you have to know the precise station name to find the code
As far as I can see this is totally irrelevant. The issue is that it appears they didn't tap their card in, have tapped out but claimed they had tapped in and later amended their journey history to support their lie.
If there is a missing touch, you can go online and add it. That what it appears the OP has done from the information they have provided. See this post above:
This section of the forum is specifically for advice for fares issues, so any questions over how the Oyster system works are probably better off in a different thread.
Yes. If a touch is manually added later on, either by the user online or by TfL when you phone them, the time will either be the same as the existing touch or different by a minute.
Agreed.
Railtrain24
Member
that’s right because i have to amended it … is was on red when i check this morning . i have to completed the payment because it wasn’t enough money on my bank and not completed journey as well
but i did tap in (the doors were open) I always tap where i started then when i get out on farringdon to get to gatwick …I tap again so to make two journeys … I was running to get the underground .. (i am not trying to lied ) i just think that it was meant to happened it was the day for me and that it .. but i can answer as honest as it is … or maybe is because the payment wasn’t completed ? maybe both ?
and not that was before now that exit is by the front where all ticket office are …train stop platform 7 not other exit just front … the gates are the normal ones … but now every morning they are at the front exit just behind the gates .. what they do is block the scan so you have to show what kind of ticket you bought … they blocked the place where you scan the QR !! and if you paying with contactless which you tap on the yellow you can pass they can’t tell you nothing with bank cards is juts the tickets..
Where did you start your journey? Does your journey history online show that journey ending at Farringdon?
Can you show more of your journey history, please? Depending on where you come from you may be better off not touching at Farringdon at all. You only need to use the validators within the station when using a paper ticket for half the journey. Also, can you explain where you touch between Underground and Thameslink, and how long you leave between each touch (out then in)?
Railtrain24
Member
ok just to clarified and you words really touch my soul .. I can’t I won’t lied not more .. so I feel like I am in this history and i cant get out of it … (like necessity of continuing with this moment with the guy ) and Is exactly opposite of what I am looking for … I stared on ladbroke grove gates are open there the underground .. so get the train get off of farringdon and running to get the thames link to get my train not tapping .. but in my head I was decided to pay with my bank because I know you can go and then amended online so for me was ok
and when i got to the gates i saw all the guys there and the machines Qr block with red stickers ( so for you to show the tickets ) and if you have cards you just pass .. so i got my card out and then this guy there … but listen i never showed him anything thing never (he just read me ) he recognized me and stop me just like that … because i knew i can’t never showed that ticket but he knew anyway …
so I though with not malicie i can tap out as I tapping in anyway you just paid … is the way out when you paid for my understanding …
and all of it is well deserved I know
I learnt now and also I though that if that see that day was paid maybe maybe and luck and they don’t investigated further that’s was what i meant to tap in and out the evidence
thank you
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